Timing mark moves

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Re: Timing mark moves

Postby kg4miq » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:23 am

Okay, I've gone back and carefully reread the thread for any clues.

You said the same behavior is occurring on #1 and #3, but 2 and 4 are good. This means the two terminals on the lower half of the distributor are exhibiting the same symptoms, per the firing order: 1, 3, 4, 2, which places #1 and #3 on the bottom of the rotation cycle.

Did the new distributor have a good gasket around the edge, so that the distributor cap sits flush all the way around? I've seen those clip-on caps get cocked sideways and still run. I know you've done this with two different caps and had the same results. Try scuffing the tip and the top flat contact of the rotor button with a bit of emery cloth or 220-grit sandpaper, to clean up the terminals and make good electrical connections.

Were both distributor caps new? If not, clean the terminals on the inside by scraping them with a razor blade. The oxidation should flake off fairly easily. Also, make certain the spring-loaded graphite button in the top of the cap is still functioning correctly, so it can make good contact with the top of the rotor button.

Make sure you've got good grounds to the engine, the valve cover, and the chassis. This probably gets overlooked more often and causes more problems for folks than we care to admit.

/tim
Last edited by kg4miq on Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
How to rebuild a 2.6L 4ZE1 distributor

'89 S Trooper - "Kal-El" - 4ZE1
'88 LS Trooper - "Delta" - 4ZE1
'92 Pickup - "Blacktail" - 4ZE1
'89 S Trooper - "Red Leader" - 4ZE1
'89 SE Trooper - "Vader" - 4ZE1
'90 Trooper - "Leia" - 4JG2T swap on hold
'89 Pickup - "Wicket" - 4ZD1
'90 S Trooper - "Nan" - 4ZE1 (possible V8 swap - Ford 302 with 5 speed?)
'94 S Amigo - "Artoo" - 4ZE1, SOLD
'92 XS Rodeo - "Jabba", LH0, 3.1L V6
'89 S Trooper - "Chewie" - 4ZE1, TRADED
'89 XS Trooper - "Red" - 4ZE1, SOLD, bought it back
'89 LS Trooper - "Obi-Wan" - LH0, 3.1L V6
'88 S Trooper - "Stormtrooper" - 4ZE1, SOLD
'91 S Trooper - "Ghost" - L32, 3.4L V6, SOLD
'89 S Trooper - "Angry Bird" - 4ZE1, SOLD
'89 S Trooper - "Phantom" - 4ZE1, salvaged
'90 Pickup - "Uno" - 4ZD1, SOLD

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flatwater
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Re: Timing mark moves

Postby DSUZU » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:25 am

First: I re-read the whole article (man, I really need a life :roll:). A few suggestions: #1 and #3 are together at the bottom of the distributor cap. A crack (even very small) can cause tracking, I know you have tried 2 caps, either one new? It is possible to have a defective cap - even 2, but I am not suggesting to throw more money at it yet. Agree on the vacuum test. A number of things can cause a vacuum leak - which causes a lean condition - which can cause a lean misfire situation.
Moore questions: (have to ask). What about valve adjustment? compression test? Can't rule ANYTHING out. Most Webers have the electric idle solenoid. Does yours? Is it hooked up to power? (sorry, but again have to ask). Have you opened up the carb to have a look inside (dirt can easily clog an idle circuit. My thoughts. Dennis
EDIT: really have to laugh. While I was typing my reply, Ed was on the same wave length :D . D.
1991 LS Trooper 2.8 V6 5 speed conversion (Sold)
1989 LS Spacecab 2.6 5 speed 4x4 manual hubs, Rodeo torsion bars, extended shackles, 2" lift, K&N airfilter (drop in), dump bed conversion, burgundy interior change, warn brush bar.
Previously owned: 1987 Trooper II LS, 1989 Trooper (parts only), 1994 Trooper 3.2 Auto, 1997 Rodeo 2.6 5 speed, 1993 shortbed pickup 2.3 (project - sold) 1992 Rodeo 4x4 LS (parts car, devoured by Spacecab needs) plus some 70 plus other non Isuzu vehicles over the years.

http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=64060

The American dream is getting farther and farther away from the American.

If your wife has 5.00, and you have 20.00, your wife has...25.00

"Water is one of the greatest essentials of life. Without water, you can't make coffee."
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Re: Timing mark moves

Postby kg4miq » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:28 am

Dennis,
That is funny! We must have had the same thing to eat for breakfast.

/tim

EDIT: I guess Ed and I do write in a similar manner.
How to rebuild a 2.6L 4ZE1 distributor

'89 S Trooper - "Kal-El" - 4ZE1
'88 LS Trooper - "Delta" - 4ZE1
'92 Pickup - "Blacktail" - 4ZE1
'89 S Trooper - "Red Leader" - 4ZE1
'89 SE Trooper - "Vader" - 4ZE1
'90 Trooper - "Leia" - 4JG2T swap on hold
'89 Pickup - "Wicket" - 4ZD1
'90 S Trooper - "Nan" - 4ZE1 (possible V8 swap - Ford 302 with 5 speed?)
'94 S Amigo - "Artoo" - 4ZE1, SOLD
'92 XS Rodeo - "Jabba", LH0, 3.1L V6
'89 S Trooper - "Chewie" - 4ZE1, TRADED
'89 XS Trooper - "Red" - 4ZE1, SOLD, bought it back
'89 LS Trooper - "Obi-Wan" - LH0, 3.1L V6
'88 S Trooper - "Stormtrooper" - 4ZE1, SOLD
'91 S Trooper - "Ghost" - L32, 3.4L V6, SOLD
'89 S Trooper - "Angry Bird" - 4ZE1, SOLD
'89 S Trooper - "Phantom" - 4ZE1, salvaged
'90 Pickup - "Uno" - 4ZD1, SOLD
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Re: Timing mark moves

Postby flatwater » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:32 pm

Just for clarity. When I closed the choke and the idle increased, the timing mark stayed steady vs. moving back and forth.

So closing the choke did not kill the already warmed up engine so I did some spraying of carb cleaner around the base of the carb and the mating surface between the intake and the head and I definitely am sucking air in a few places. Gonna see if I can get it sealed up better with some new gaskets. And then resume trying to get this tuned.
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Re: Timing mark moves

Postby kg4miq » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:37 pm

Sounds like a plan! Keep us posted.
How to rebuild a 2.6L 4ZE1 distributor

'89 S Trooper - "Kal-El" - 4ZE1
'88 LS Trooper - "Delta" - 4ZE1
'92 Pickup - "Blacktail" - 4ZE1
'89 S Trooper - "Red Leader" - 4ZE1
'89 SE Trooper - "Vader" - 4ZE1
'90 Trooper - "Leia" - 4JG2T swap on hold
'89 Pickup - "Wicket" - 4ZD1
'90 S Trooper - "Nan" - 4ZE1 (possible V8 swap - Ford 302 with 5 speed?)
'94 S Amigo - "Artoo" - 4ZE1, SOLD
'92 XS Rodeo - "Jabba", LH0, 3.1L V6
'89 S Trooper - "Chewie" - 4ZE1, TRADED
'89 XS Trooper - "Red" - 4ZE1, SOLD, bought it back
'89 LS Trooper - "Obi-Wan" - LH0, 3.1L V6
'88 S Trooper - "Stormtrooper" - 4ZE1, SOLD
'91 S Trooper - "Ghost" - L32, 3.4L V6, SOLD
'89 S Trooper - "Angry Bird" - 4ZE1, SOLD
'89 S Trooper - "Phantom" - 4ZE1, salvaged
'90 Pickup - "Uno" - 4ZD1, SOLD
kg4miq
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Re: Timing mark moves

Postby DSUZU » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:23 pm

Vacuum leaks - especially fluctuating vacuum can cause the timing to bounce around. It shouldn't, because the vacuum should be hooked up to ported vacuum, but that's a perfect scenario.

Corned beef hash, fried eggs, grits, coffee. :D Dennis
Last edited by DSUZU on Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1991 LS Trooper 2.8 V6 5 speed conversion (Sold)
1989 LS Spacecab 2.6 5 speed 4x4 manual hubs, Rodeo torsion bars, extended shackles, 2" lift, K&N airfilter (drop in), dump bed conversion, burgundy interior change, warn brush bar.
Previously owned: 1987 Trooper II LS, 1989 Trooper (parts only), 1994 Trooper 3.2 Auto, 1997 Rodeo 2.6 5 speed, 1993 shortbed pickup 2.3 (project - sold) 1992 Rodeo 4x4 LS (parts car, devoured by Spacecab needs) plus some 70 plus other non Isuzu vehicles over the years.

http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=64060

The American dream is getting farther and farther away from the American.

If your wife has 5.00, and you have 20.00, your wife has...25.00

"Water is one of the greatest essentials of life. Without water, you can't make coffee."
DSUZU
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Posts: 6836
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Re: Timing mark moves

Postby kg4miq » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:28 pm

But his vacuum advance should be disconnected while setting timing, correct?
How to rebuild a 2.6L 4ZE1 distributor

'89 S Trooper - "Kal-El" - 4ZE1
'88 LS Trooper - "Delta" - 4ZE1
'92 Pickup - "Blacktail" - 4ZE1
'89 S Trooper - "Red Leader" - 4ZE1
'89 SE Trooper - "Vader" - 4ZE1
'90 Trooper - "Leia" - 4JG2T swap on hold
'89 Pickup - "Wicket" - 4ZD1
'90 S Trooper - "Nan" - 4ZE1 (possible V8 swap - Ford 302 with 5 speed?)
'94 S Amigo - "Artoo" - 4ZE1, SOLD
'92 XS Rodeo - "Jabba", LH0, 3.1L V6
'89 S Trooper - "Chewie" - 4ZE1, TRADED
'89 XS Trooper - "Red" - 4ZE1, SOLD, bought it back
'89 LS Trooper - "Obi-Wan" - LH0, 3.1L V6
'88 S Trooper - "Stormtrooper" - 4ZE1, SOLD
'91 S Trooper - "Ghost" - L32, 3.4L V6, SOLD
'89 S Trooper - "Angry Bird" - 4ZE1, SOLD
'89 S Trooper - "Phantom" - 4ZE1, salvaged
'90 Pickup - "Uno" - 4ZD1, SOLD
kg4miq
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Re: Timing mark moves

Postby DSUZU » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:01 pm

kg4miq wrote:But his vacuum advance should be disconnected while setting timing, correct?

you're right. He did have it disconnected. Hmmmmmm. Dennis
1991 LS Trooper 2.8 V6 5 speed conversion (Sold)
1989 LS Spacecab 2.6 5 speed 4x4 manual hubs, Rodeo torsion bars, extended shackles, 2" lift, K&N airfilter (drop in), dump bed conversion, burgundy interior change, warn brush bar.
Previously owned: 1987 Trooper II LS, 1989 Trooper (parts only), 1994 Trooper 3.2 Auto, 1997 Rodeo 2.6 5 speed, 1993 shortbed pickup 2.3 (project - sold) 1992 Rodeo 4x4 LS (parts car, devoured by Spacecab needs) plus some 70 plus other non Isuzu vehicles over the years.

http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=64060

The American dream is getting farther and farther away from the American.

If your wife has 5.00, and you have 20.00, your wife has...25.00

"Water is one of the greatest essentials of life. Without water, you can't make coffee."
DSUZU
I am the Stig
 
Posts: 6836
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:28 pm
Location: St Pete Florida
Has thanked: 213 times
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Re: Timing mark moves

Postby flatwater » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:21 pm

Dennis,.

I have been saying hmmmmm all week.

I missed some of the comments on here since I have been trying to work while distracting my self with musings of erratic timing...

They are NGK standard plugs. The first set was platinum but I swapped those out a couple of months ago.

At any rate I need to get the air leaks sorted out before I can move on.

Thank you very much for everyone's help with this. I know it takes time from your day to respond and I am very grateful. Eventually this will be sorted out.
flatwater
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