6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby JLEMOND » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:30 pm

[quote="kickerfox"]Found it.

[IMG]http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/download/file.php?mode=view&id=5700&sid=7ea68b650d1f3f1fc3e790fecba76621[/IMG][/quote]

WELL THATS STRANGE , I HAVE SEEN THAT BEFORE , WHEN I MENTION NO OTHER INFO ,WHAT I WAS REFERING TO IS THE FACT THAT I NEVER RECEIVED ANY IN INFORMATION THAT THE ENGS WERE BEING BUILT BY HONDA , KINDA STRANGE SINCE I WAS SENIOR TRAINING INSTRUCTOR FOR ISUZU MOTORS IN ATLANTA FOR 21 YEARS AND MY BOSS WAS THE HEAD OF TH ENGINEERING DEPT IN CALIF, AT NO TIME WERE WE EVER INFORMED OF ANY COLLABIRATION BETWEEN THE TWO CO,S UN TILL 1994 WHEN ISUZU STARTED BUILDING THE RODEO WITH THE PASSPORT NAME ON IT , PRIOR TO THIS 21 YEAR STINT I SPENT 10 YEARS WITH HONDA MOTOR S IN THEIR ENGINEERING DEPT IN GARDENA CAL DOING SPECIAL PROJECTS AND NEVER SAW ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT HONDA MIXING IT UP WITH ISUZU.

HONDA HAS ALL WAYS BEEN ONE TO DO THEIR OWN THING AT LEAST THEY WERE MANY YEARS AGO.

THINK MAYBE SOME WHERE WAY BACK THEY GOT SOME MISS INFORMATION AND THAT IS THE WAY IT WENT ,, TO SEE WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT ASK ANY HONDA DLR OR ACURA DLR WHO BUILT THE SLX TRUCK AND THE PASS PORT , YOU WILL GET ONE ANSWER WHY HONDA BUILT THEM, OF COURSE , AH RIGHT .
NOT TRYING TO BE HARD HEADED BUT IT SURE SEEM STRANGE THAT WE WOULD HAVE NEVER HEARD ANYTHING TO THAT EFFECT.
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby foytiX » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:04 pm

kickerfox, I'm thinking you aren't allowed to edit posts in the "hall of fame" section.....I could be wrong though.
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby kickerfox » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:11 pm

[quote="JLEMOND"][quote="kickerfox"]Found it.

[IMG]http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/download/file.php?mode=view&id=5700&sid=7ea68b650d1f3f1fc3e790fecba76621[/IMG][/quote]

WELL THATS STRANGE , I HAVE SEEN THAT BEFORE , WHEN I MENTION NO OTHER INFO ,WHAT I WAS REFERING TO IS THE FACT THAT I NEVER RECEIVED ANY IN INFORMATION THAT THE ENGS WERE BEING BUILT BY HONDA , KINDA STRANGE SINCE I WAS SENIOR TRAINING INSTRUCTOR FOR ISUZU MOTORS IN ATLANTA FOR 21 YEARS AND MY BOSS WAS THE HEAD OF TH ENGINEERING DEPT IN CALIF, AT NO TIME WERE WE EVER INFORMED OF ANY COLLABIRATION BETWEEN THE TWO CO,S UN TILL 1994 WHEN ISUZU STARTED BUILDING THE RODEO WITH THE PASSPORT NAME ON IT , PRIOR TO THIS 21 YEAR STINT I SPENT 10 YEARS WITH HONDA MOTOR S IN THEIR ENGINEERING DEPT IN GARDENA CAL DOING SPECIAL PROJECTS AND NEVER SAW ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT HONDA MIXING IT UP WITH ISUZU.

HONDA HAS ALL WAYS BEEN ONE TO DO THEIR OWN THING AT LEAST THEY WERE MANY YEARS AGO.

THINK MAYBE SOME WHERE WAY BACK THEY GOT SOME MISS INFORMATION AND THAT IS THE WAY IT WENT ,, TO SEE WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT ASK ANY HONDA DLR OR ACURA DLR WHO BUILT THE SLX TRUCK AND THE PASS PORT , YOU WILL GET ONE ANSWER WHY HONDA BUILT THEM, OF COURSE , AH RIGHT .
NOT TRYING TO BE HARD HEADED BUT IT SURE SEEM STRANGE THAT WE WOULD HAVE NEVER HEARD ANYTHING TO THAT EFFECT.[/quote]

If true, it probably didn't matter who cast the first stone...I mean block. If a Honda plant built the v6 for Isuzu, it's still an Isuzu engine as they hold the design rights to it. I don't personally have any brand loyalty one way or the other. Many companies have both good and bad products. I think the Isuzu v6 is very well built reguardless of who built it. Owners who take care of the engine are getting a lot of use out of it. As for the SLX and Passport they are rebadged Isuzu trucks. No argument there. I read that part of the deal between Isuzu and Honda also involved 3 Honda vehicles that were rebadged Isuzu including a Honda Civic. I sometimes poke fun at claims to who built what. Like the old school hotrodders who say "I built a '57 Chevy". I say "No, Chevy built a '57 Chevy, you just reassembled it". :P Using that logic one could say Honda built the Passport if it was assembled at a Honda factory using Isuzu parts. I'm going to settle and just say Jesus built my car. lol
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby kickerfox » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:16 pm

[quote="foytiX"]kickerfox, I'm thinking you aren't allowed to edit posts in the "hall of fame" section.....I could be wrong though.[/quote]

How did we get here? Were we swept away in a temporal rift or subjected to chronoton radiation? Sorry about that trekkie outburst, I blame Netflix.
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby foytiX » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:03 am

[quote="kickerfox"]How did we get here? Were we swept away in a temporal rift or subjected to chronoton radiation? Sorry about that trekkie outburst, I blame Netflix.[/quote]

hahah, well it was just a thought, so don't quote me......as the quotes aren't working too well in this thread :lol:
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby JLEMOND » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:34 am

[quote="kickerfox"][quote="JLEMOND"][quote="kickerfox"]Found it.

[IMG]http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/download/file.php?mode=view&id=5700&sid=7ea68b650d1f3f1fc3e790fecba76621[/IMG][/quote]

WELL THATS STRANGE , I HAVE SEEN THAT BEFORE , WHEN I MENTION NO OTHER INFO ,WHAT I WAS REFERING TO IS THE FACT THAT I NEVER RECEIVED ANY IN INFORMATION THAT THE ENGS WERE BEING BUILT BY HONDA , KINDA STRANGE SINCE I WAS SENIOR TRAINING INSTRUCTOR FOR ISUZU MOTORS IN ATLANTA FOR 21 YEARS AND MY BOSS WAS THE HEAD OF TH ENGINEERING DEPT IN CALIF, AT NO TIME WERE WE EVER INFORMED OF ANY COLLABIRATION BETWEEN THE TWO CO,S UN TILL 1994 WHEN ISUZU STARTED BUILDING THE RODEO WITH THE PASSPORT NAME ON IT , PRIOR TO THIS 21 YEAR STINT I SPENT 10 YEARS WITH HONDA MOTOR S IN THEIR ENGINEERING DEPT IN GARDENA CAL DOING SPECIAL PROJECTS AND NEVER SAW ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT HONDA MIXING IT UP WITH ISUZU.

HONDA HAS ALL WAYS BEEN ONE TO DO THEIR OWN THING AT LEAST THEY WERE MANY YEARS AGO.

THINK MAYBE SOME WHERE WAY BACK THEY GOT SOME MISS INFORMATION AND THAT IS THE WAY IT WENT ,, TO SEE WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT ASK ANY HONDA DLR OR ACURA DLR WHO BUILT THE SLX TRUCK AND THE PASS PORT , YOU WILL GET ONE ANSWER WHY HONDA BUILT THEM, OF COURSE , AH RIGHT .
NOT TRYING TO BE HARD HEADED BUT IT SURE SEEM STRANGE THAT WE WOULD HAVE NEVER HEARD ANYTHING TO THAT EFFECT.[/quote]

If true, it probably didn't matter who cast the first stone...I mean block. If a Honda plant built the v6 for Isuzu, it's still an Isuzu engine as they hold the design rights to it. I don't personally have any brand loyalty one way or the other. Many companies have both good and bad products. I think the Isuzu v6 is very well built reguardless of who built it. Owners who take care of the engine are getting a lot of use out of it. As for the SLX and Passport they are rebadged Isuzu trucks. No argument there. I read that part of the deal between Isuzu and Honda also involved 3 Honda vehicles that were rebadged Isuzu including a Honda Civic. I sometimes poke fun at claims to who built what. Like the old school hotrodders who say "I built a '57 Chevy". I say "No, Chevy built a '57 Chevy, you just reassembled it". :P Using that logic one could say Honda built the Passport if it was assembled at a Honda factory using Isuzu parts. I'm going to settle and just say Jesus built my car. lol[/quote]


ABSOLUTELY CORRECT , I DONT THINK THERE IS ANY CO NOW THAT ISNT STRETCHED OUT LIKE A BUNGY CORD TYE DOWN, I USED TO HAVE A BIG CHART ON THE WALL AT THE TRAINING CENTER WITH EVERY CAR MANUFACTURER IN THE WORLD ON IT AND LINES RUNNING AWAY FROM IT TO SHOW WHO THEY WERE AFFILIATED WITH , AND VIRTUALLY ALL WERE TIED TOGETHER AT SOME POINT ESP GM AND FORD ,ABOUT THE ONLY ONES THAT ISUZU WAS NOT HOOKED IN WAS FORD, BUT A LOT OF THE GM CO OPS WITH RE BADGED VEH, AT THE TAT TIME HONDA WAS NOT CONNECTED TO ANYONE BUT HONDA , THEY DID LATER CONNECT WITH ISUZU AND SUBARU ALL SO, BUT NOT FORD , MR HONDA HATED FORD WITH A PASSION BECAUSE OF REMARKS MADE BY WILLIAM FORD IN THE EARLY 70,S REGARDING THE CIIVIC,S WHICH I WAS HEAVELY INVOLVED IN AT THAT TIME , .

ANY WAY IF I CAN HELP YOU WITH ANY INFO BE GLAD TO, I HAVE AN ALPINE S/C TROOPER THAT I HAVE BEEN RUNNING FOR THE LAST 60 000 MILES AT ALL MOST 5 LB,S BOOST , ABSOLUTELY NO PROB AFTER A FEW WEEKS OF SORTING OUT THEIR PROB,S LOTS OF POWER AND DEAD ON RELIABILITY, LATER THIS SUMMER WILL BE SWAPPING THE M60 FOR A REWORKED M90 ON MODIFIED MANIFOLD WITH BUILT IN , INTER COOLER . JUST HAVE TO GET TIME TO GET THINGS WORKED OUT, BUT THE MANIFOLD IS CAST FOR THE LARGER M90 AND HAS THE MACHINING ALL DONE.
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby JLEMOND » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:14 pm

Tad wrote:So Jerry, you are saying that you'll have an M60 and manifold available this summer?

-Tad

P.S. I'm looking at why Quotes aren't working here.


POSSIBLE IF I DONT PUT IT AND THE ENG IN THE 95 RS . WHICH IS WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby kickerfox » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:26 pm

Subaru RS? If so put an EZ30 in it.
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby JLEMOND » Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:45 pm

kickerfox wrote:Subaru RS? If so put an EZ30 in it.


NOPE TROOPER RS
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby kickerfox » Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:14 pm

This information should be added to the 2nd post.

Here's a good find!!

The Toyota 7M-GTE (Toyota Supra Turbo Inline 6) uses a 5.98" (151.892mm) rod. This amounts to a 0.004" shorter CC then the 152mm tall-deck Isuzu rod. Fairly insignificant change in length. As with the 1UZ rod, The 7M has the same 22mm pin as the Isuzu but still has the same 2.166" (55mm) big end as the 1UZ. This rod will also need it's big end opened by 2mm to fit an Isuzu v6 but, more importantly, this rod should fit the newer tall-deck Isuzu blocks AND came from an OEM boosted application with an aftermarket following.

Crower part number is B93757B-6

If there's a direct bolt-in H-beam out there, I'll find it.
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby kickerfox » Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:21 pm

Argg I wish I could edit posts.

The 7M-GTE rod has a full floating pin. This will require cutting circlip grooves in the Isuzu pistons. I haven't started my piston search yet.

Here's what a 7M-GTE rod looks like. Note the size compared to the piston.
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby kickerfox » Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:32 pm

Forgot to mention. Cheap 7M-GTE H-beams go for about $300 for 6.

Here's a set for $250. :)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CXRacing-Toyota ... b1&vxp=mtr
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby bradzuzu » Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:36 pm

I've been comparing aftermarket vw air cooled pistons for my build, the 94mm stroker pistons should be very close !! And they're full float.. Look into the Teflon button setup
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby kickerfox » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:02 pm

I'm going to deal in millimeters in this post.

Whem I'm researching piston interchange, I take the bore of the engine that needs the piston (in this case the Isuzu 6V) and drop it by .5mm (.020") increments.

That gives us:
93.4
92.9
92.4
91.9
91.4
ect...

The reason for doing it this way is to find your overbore options. Say you find a piston with the same compression height and pin diameter as the 6V but the bore of the piston you found is 92.4mm. By looking at the list above, we can determine that the piston you found in a .040" overbore will fit the Isuzu. 92.4mm+.040" = 93.416mm or ~93.4mm. We can then hone our 6V block for proper clearance.

I first search for a piston by the pin diameter and compression height. Here's why. The 6V is has a 29.693mm CH. Since I'll likely be boosting my engine, I can accept a slight drop in CH of say 0.5-1.0mm. That leaves me 28.693mm-29.693mm CH to work with. I'll remember "29mm" and find pistons with a CH around that number. The Isuzu pin is 22mm. We will need to keep this in mind as we search our CH dimension because if we stumble across the "perfect piston" but the pin is 21mm, it may give us the option of offsetting the pin up to 1mm in the piston in either direction to account for a 1mm difference in CH. Since many rods are full floating, I try not to focus too much on pin modifications to the rod itself and try and stick with 22mm pins. That said, there's always the bigend of the connecting rod. Since we already know a 7M rod is close (and dirt cheap) and it's bigend has to be opened, we now have an extra 2mm down there to play with. I will keep that in mind when searching for pistons then I have 2mm to play with on compression height.
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby bradzuzu » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:28 pm

You remind me of my budy Chris , he's very scientific too :) If you keep giving yourself options if choice you'll never make up your mind dude lol.. But very good food for thought
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby kickerfox » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:14 pm

As far as this engine is concerned there are no options. Finding a rod/piston interchange is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. The only hope is to more haystacks.
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby kickerfox » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:17 pm

*find
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby bradzuzu » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:27 pm

There's plenty of options your just thinking to scientifically ... You showed the rod crossover (easily machined) ,,, you've givin piston sizes,, I've givin an option of vw ... The reliefs can be cut if need be and the skirt can be cut down for clearence as well.. I guess it helps that my brother was a machinist for many years, so wishful thinking has no boundaries in my book... My biggest beef would be a good crank, because no matter how good the rods and pistons are , if the crank breaks your done...
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby kickerfox » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:52 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 5tE55DAFKo

Luke at HP Heaven informed me that that was a reworked stock crank they were running.

I guess I haven't read your book. Wouldn't it be better to find a combination that requires as little machining as possible? I'm trying to come up with an inexpensive upgrade solution using off-the-shelf parts. If someone has to pay a shop to open the rod's BE, cut circlip grooves, open the gudgeon diameter, cut valve reliefs, trim the skirts, and then balance the assembly... you might as well just order custom rods and pistons at that point. It's nice to have a machine shop at your disposal but most of us don't have that luxury.
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby bradzuzu » Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:52 pm

If you did go full float with the wrist pins then you could use Teflon buttons and skip the c clip cutting.. If you wanting to build a motor that's going to produce 100 plus hp from boost then you gotta expect to spend a bit more , but realistically sizing rods is typical with a normal rebuild .. So pick the ones you like and figure in the sizing if need be.. The pistons could get tricky, like you compared the stock ones have a good chunk of ring land .. So we could stick with them.. I'd like to find out what was done to the stock crank.. Maybe it was frozen.. Unfortunately my brother doesn't work at that place anymore so I'm in the same boat.. I'm not talking smack , I'm just thinking of the best bang for your buck.. I do know how to build motors and have had many years of experience in modifications, that's the fun part and the difference between bolting something together versus putting personal touches here and there..

I'm not knocking your efforts of parts comparisons , I'm just making it a point to say try not to over think the objective... I like what your bringing to the table..:)
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby kickerfox » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:28 pm

I know I'll be spending alot of money with the build but, like everyone else, I'm trying to save as much as possible. OEM Toyota turbo rods (or h-beams) would be a godsend if it was only a matter of opening the big end. :) Maybe the Isuzu pistons will hold up ok. Hell maybe the rods will hold up. I don't think anyone knows. I'd LOVE to get Wiseco and Manley on the horn and tell them I need 6VE1 forged pistons and rods STAT! but god knows that will cost a pretty penny. You've addressed the other matter being the crank. I wouldn't want to build a custom $2000 bottom end only to find out Luke was lying about turning 800hp on an iron crank. :|
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby bradzuzu » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:17 pm

You know the old saying,, it will do it once anyway.. Jerry has ran his 3.5 super charged for over 65 k (5psi)
Another buddy of mine ,member on here is pushing 10 psi + with his 3.2 ... It probly has 80-120 k in it.. The Australians are pushing good boost too !! They just don't like to Divulge there know how lol... Onward and upward my good man
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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby kickerfox » Mon May 27, 2013 12:40 am

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Re: 6VD1 and 6VE1 engine information and upgrade options.

Postby kickerfox » Wed May 29, 2013 3:19 pm

While researching the fuel injector part numbers (FJ580), I found the newer Isuzu v6 injectors (FJ414) are also used in:

FJ414
• 1998 CHEVROLET PRIZM 4-1794 1.8L DOHC
• 1999 CHEVROLET PRIZM 4-1794 1.8L DOHC
• 1998 TOYOTA COROLLA 4-1794 1.8L 1ZZ-FE
• 1999 TOYOTA COROLLA 4-1794 1.8L 1ZZ-FE
• 1999 ISUZU TRUCK VEHICROSS V6-3494 3.5L DOHC
• 2000 ISUZU TRUCK VEHICROSS V6-3494 3.5L DOHC
• 2001 ISUZU TRUCK VEHICROSS V6-3494 3.5L DOHC
• 2002 ISUZU TRUCK AXIOM V6-3494 3.5L DOHC
• 2003 ISUZU TRUCK RODEO V6-3165 3.2L DOHC
• 2003 ISUZU TRUCK AXIOM V6-3494 3.5L DOHC
• 2004 ISUZU TRUCK RODEO V6-3165 3.2L DOHC

FJ580 is the common injector for the '98+.

FJ580
• 1998 ACURA TRUCK SLX V6-3494 3.5L DOHC
• 1998 HONDA TRUCK PASSPORT V6-3165 3.2L DOHC
• 1998 ISUZU TRUCK AMIGO V6-3165 3.2L DOHC
• 1998 ISUZU TRUCK RODEO V6-3165 3.2L DOHC
• 1998 ISUZU TRUCK TROOPER V6-3494 3.5L DOHC
• 1999 ACURA TRUCK SLX V6-3494 3.5L DOHC
• 1999 HONDA TRUCK PASSPORT V6-3165 3.2L DOHC
• 1999 ISUZU TRUCK AMIGO V6-3165 3.2L DOHC
• 1999 ISUZU TRUCK RODEO V6-3165 3.2L DOHC
• 1999 ISUZU TRUCK TROOPER V6-3494 3.5L DOHC
• 2000 HONDA TRUCK PASSPORT V6-3165 3.2L DOHC
• 2000 ISUZU TRUCK AMIGO V6-3165 3.2L DOHC
• 2000 ISUZU TRUCK RODEO V6-3165 3.2L DOHC
• 2000 ISUZU TRUCK TROOPER V6-3494 3.5L DOHC
• 2001 HONDA TRUCK PASSPORT V6-3165 3.2L DOHC

I'm trying to find the stock flow-rate of Isuzu v6 injectors. The FJ414 *may* be 220cc based on some Toyota info I found.



FJ580 injectors also cross to:

AIRTEX ENG. MGMT. SYSTEMS: 4G1015
BWD AUTOMOTIVE: 67177
CARQUEST: FJ580
DELPHI: FJ10560 (FJ10526?)
Beck/Arnley 143-1550363
GP SORENSEN: 8001592N <---OEM?

Related Numbers
GENERAL MOTORS OE 17113399
GENERAL MOTORS OE 25166922
HONDA 8171133990
HONDA 8251669220
ISUZU 8251669221
AIRTEX ENG. MGMT. SYSTEMS 4G1015
BWD AUTOMOTIVE 67177
CARQUEST FJ580
DELPHI FJ10560
GP SORENSEN 8001592N
KEMPARTS 1427185
NAPA 218735
NIEHOFF 67177
PYTHON INJECTION INC. 624-278
PYTHON INJECTION INC. 624-279
PYTHON INJECTION INC. 624-316
WELLS M761

Alternate/OEM Part Number(s): 17113399, 25166922, 8171133990, 8251669220, 8251669221
This product is compatible to: 8-17113-399-0-4G1015,67177,2-18735,17113399,8-17113-399-0,8-25166-922-1,FJ580

I just got off the phone with Python. The 624-316 is a 24lb injector which is 250cc. The "24" in 624-xxx is the flow rate in Python's numbering system.
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