To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby kickerfox » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:19 pm

A fuel pressure riser is a crutch when you don't have proper fuel management. Since the stock injectors can not flow enough, you have to force fuel through them. Your factory timing maps are not capable of "tuning" ignition under boost. The system may be capable of detecting a knock event but that's not ignition "tuning". It's a safety feature for the lack of ignition tuning to prevent damage to the engine. That safety system is designed for a stock engine and may or may not pull enough timing to account for forced induction. It may back of 10deg when a knock event occurs when you may only need 2deg. Who knows. It's a gamble.

I melted a plug, piston, and tweaked a rod in my first Miata build because:
1. I was using a rising rate regulator.
2. I wasn't running an intercooler.
3. Lack of proper timing management.
4. I pretended 1-3 weren't a problem.

Fortunately for me Mazda 1.8 engines are everywhere and dirt cheap. I can't say as much for the Isuzu v6.

Any news on the wiring harness?
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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby bradzuzu » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:29 pm

I keep thinking about it and then getting busy.. Ill call you tomorrow... Yep it was a thought that rethought on the way home .. Injectors and fmc without a doubt.. I keep looking at how to mount the inner cooler, it's not my happy thought right now..
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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby bradzuzu » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:43 pm

Well some very interesting news to report .. Last night I unplugged the vac line to the plenum butterflies so they are open all the time, big difference in run ability !! I don't quite understand why but its like the smaller runners where building more back pressure , maybe turbulence ... I pulled the 3.5 plenum apart to check the locations of the map port and fpr port.. Having the plenum butterflies open now took away lugging ping if I pushed to hard on the pedal.. I filled up with super as well to see what all it would do.. Obviously if I get into it to hard it'll most likely ping/ detonate.. This morning running crap gas I drove to work in a bad head wind, was able to pull nice and steady in fifth seeing 2-3 lbs of boost at times... If I don't go crazy I think this setup would last a long time this way ..!!

I still plan on getting the programmer and larger injectors but I must say the factory engine management system is doing quite well now.. I can easily see how the super charger with minor tuning has worked in the past .. It very fun to drive as is, knowing its only going to get better is almost scarey lol
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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby kickerfox » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:18 am

....

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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby bradzuzu » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:39 pm

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I got down right serious this afternoon and started cutting and welding on the inner-cooler :twisted:

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It's just about done , dum thing was just not gonna work without some changes.. Gotta love arc welders :mrgreen:
91 amigo sas toy front leaf- traded off :(
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custom built buggy ffor the dirty stuff

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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby kickerfox » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:09 am

Sweeeeet. Hey Brad. Remember that thing I'm making? I got the capital! woot woot
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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby chuffer » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:00 am

So has this thing melted down in a hell-hath-no-fury-like-a-turboed-motor-on-stock-timing fireball and taken out the local proverbial bus full of nuns and orphans yet?

If not, then it needs moar boost.
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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby bradzuzu » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:17 pm

Update time.. More like pita pain time if you ask me !!

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This is one more of the dang it jobs lol
Such a pain to accomplish this part !!
91 amigo sas toy front leaf- traded off :(
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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby chuffer » Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:25 pm

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhmbulance to Bradzipple's thread, STAT.
-Chris
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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby bradzuzu » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:45 pm

Lol thanks for the support Chris !! Start calling you squatty haha
91 amigo sas toy front leaf- traded off :(
2000 amigo sas d44 wagonear 4 link
custom built buggy ffor the dirty stuff

My build up page
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Intake R&R - port and polish

Sometimes trying is all you can do, but when you succeed , that's something to be proud of...
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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby bradzuzu » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:50 pm

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Took three hours but it is all hooked up finally !! So far I can tell a big difference with mixture and boost coming on..
91 amigo sas toy front leaf- traded off :(
2000 amigo sas d44 wagonear 4 link
custom built buggy ffor the dirty stuff

My build up page
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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby kickerfox » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:35 pm

Sweeeeeeet
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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby shaggydoink » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:21 am

I fell a little behind on this spin-off thread, I continue to be impressed at how you throw yourself into these projects and make it all work. Great stuff Brad!!

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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby kickerfox » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:51 am

shaggydoink wrote:I continue to be impressed at how you throw yourself into these projects and make it all work.


Me too. lmao :P Brad, you need to play the lotto!
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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby chuffer » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:19 am

Heh. Not to "nut swing" too much, but you have to see it in person to get it. There is no luck involved. I think when most of us view something as not doable, Brad just takes the thought process a step or two further until he sees a solution and then, most importantly, he whips out the torch and the welder and builds the solution immediately. Pretty wild to watch. A little birdy tells me there are a couple of neat projects (some of which I am skeptical, but he will prove me wrong again...) on deck for the Amigo. Stay tuned.
-Chris
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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby bradzuzu » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:47 pm

Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know whatcha gonna get lol

Thanks everyone for the support ,sarcasm , slaps in the nethers and plain enjoyment !! Without it life would be boring and I apreciate every but of it !!

The intercooler has made quite a difference even at low boost pressures.. I just topped off yesterday and my mileage is right up around 17.. I think it's come up with the cooler installed... The wild ride has yet to come... I kind of day dream of pulling up next to a hotrod and smokin the tires off the line just to give them a mouth drop.. My memory of dropped drivelines , broken axles always hovers over to the reality side 8) The kid in me says yes, the fatherly side says (hey dumbazz no no !!) is that considered a split personality ?? :)
91 amigo sas toy front leaf- traded off :(
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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby kickerfox » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:33 pm

The reason I say luck is that he has no fuel management, no ignition management, stock injectors, stock fuel pump, MAF turbulence issues, no wideband gauge, no O2 clamp... did I miss anything? haha

Props to Brad for keeping the rods attached to the crank through all his "experimentation".

I can't wait to see his eyes pop once he tunes it. Having personally built many diy turbo systems, I know what's involved, how it performs, and what he's missing. ;) When I switched over from fuel pressure risers and boost timing controllers to an intercooled system with computer management... WOW!

Brad I was thinking... If you can keep her together long enough for me to finish my engine swap, I'll have Isuzu base-maps for the FIC that you'll be able to upload and go. The only thing you'll have to change vs. my maps will be the injector size until you get larger injectors.
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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby bradzuzu » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:55 pm

I'm workin towards it !! Not sure who will get to the finish line first for the tuning... I need to get your harness pulled and mailed out !! I have a good idea what in missing out on, just not sure the kid in me will prevale ... My records spotless these days :)

Still getting 17 mpg by the way

At least these steps gain a bit of knowledge of what mods seem to make the biggest difference.. In the end that tuner is what it will need without a shadow of a doubt !!
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custom built buggy ffor the dirty stuff

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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby kickerfox » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:10 pm

bradzuzu wrote:At least these steps gain a bit of knowledge of what mods seem to make the biggest difference..


The problem with modding an already "incorrect" system (no offence) is that is you might be making changes to something that cures the symptom but not the cause. For example: Say your MAF wasn't reading the airflow correctly because of it's location. Say this caused a rich condition. To compensate, you decreased the fuel pressure. Now when your cruising, your "seat of your pants dyno" feels great but when the boost comes on at higher RPM, and the ECU goes into open loop, your fuel pressure is not sufficient enough to maintain enough fuel. This is also the problem with your factory ECU adjusting fuel trims. Anything you do to add fuel is going to be removed by the ECU's trims. It's a vicious endless circle until you have all the right parts and the ability to adjust each and every aspect of all the engine management.

By the way, the MAF can not be located where it is and function correctly. It -may- seem to run ok (see above) but, as velocity increases, the air will be pushed to the outside of the pipe's outer radius and away from the sensor that's located in the center of the MAF housing. The situation gets worse as airflow increases. The MAF needs to be in a straight section of pipe away from bends with a screen on each end to disrupt any turbulence within the housing. Or... eliminated when the FIC goes in. :)
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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby bradzuzu » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:21 am

Something that can't be seen in the piping is a jump up bushing on each side to fit the diameter of the maf , I then flanged the inner section out in the shape of a bell then welded inside too.. I created a slight venture effect... Some vehicles run better with the maf on the inlet/suction side and others on the pressure side.. I know it's leaner than if it was on the draw through side but it gives better bottom end throttle control and I can have the fuel pressure set up higher (littke above stock) to accommodate boost.. I thought about putting the maf on the straight pipe feeding into the intercooler but knowing that would be hotter air (temp wise) then what's exiting the ic I put it in its lication it's at.. Also this is an offroad setup that's going to take punishment so I'm taking that into consideration of the build...

I know your on the money with the input your giving but we are building for two different environments ... Also I'm feeding in to the top of the intercooler and charging out of the bottom...
91 amigo sas toy front leaf- traded off :(
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custom built buggy ffor the dirty stuff

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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby kickerfox » Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:28 pm

bradzuzu wrote:I know your on the money with the input your giving but we are building for two different environments


What's different? We are both turbocharging punishing an Isuzu v6. :)
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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby bradzuzu » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:05 pm

I ordered the tuner this morning :) be ready mr smarty pants !! Tis close !!
91 amigo sas toy front leaf- traded off :(
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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby kickerfox » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:12 pm

The FIC6? :D
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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby bradzuzu » Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:06 pm

Yep !! Asked about the wide band , they have a new one that sends signal to the tuner for even better programming and sensing..
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custom built buggy ffor the dirty stuff

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Re: To turbo or not to turbo my 3.2 ??

Postby kickerfox » Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:23 pm

bradzuzu wrote:Yep !! Asked about the wide band , they have a new one that sends signal to the tuner for even better programming and sensing..


New one? All the widebands have a 0-5v output for tuning. It's still not going to tune it for you. The FIC just uses it for logging and it's virtual gauges.

Did you order up some injectors too?
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