Wiper relay replacement

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Wiper relay replacement

Postby Gizmo42 » Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:57 pm

I'm not sure if this belongs here or in the electronics section so feel free to move it.

I just finished replacing the relays for my wipers and took some pics and notes that I thought I would post here. I spent about 1.5 hrs and at least half of that time was testing to see what each relay did. I used a 12 volt test light which esentially grounds the pin with a light as a small load. Apparently the switches connect the ground side of the relay coils since touching one side just gave me a light and touching the other side made the relay operate with the switch off. The relays are in the box marked "Alarm" which actually has nothing to do with the alarm system that I can see.

Sorry the pics are kind of blurry, I should have used macro mode..

Top of the board with relays removed
Image

Notice the solder pads and traces on the top. I think they are double soldered so if something doesnt work right after replacing the relay you might not have gotten enough solder to reach the top pads, or didnt heat the relay pin properly.

Back of the board with the solder points for each relay marked..
Image

Top of the board again with new relays in and labled..
Image

RY1 = horn
RY2 = front wipers
RY3 = not sure but touching the common for the contacts operated the rear wiper. Touching the coil did nothing that I could see.
RY4 = rear wiper
RY5 = rear washer pump

I bought mine from Mouser Electronics for $5.10 each. Apparently they stock the original Fujitsu ones now. Part number 817-FTR-P1CN012N. I ordered 3 since I wasnt sure which was the rear wiper and just replaced them all.

As a side note, if you break one open you will find a smaller Fujitsu FBR-51ND12-W relay inside wrapped in rubber. Thats how they make them quiet.
Last edited by Gizmo42 on Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby bigpoppax2 » Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:14 pm

Nice pics and tech info.

I was too lazy to take pics when I did mine. I just may have not gotten a good solder joint up to the top pad as you say. As mine worked for a while and then quit again.

I need to take it out and try again.

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relay woes

Postby Sh_YVR » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:29 am

Just a couple of notes:

it may be marked 'alarm' since the 'horn' is part of the alarm system, so if you had 'problems' with it going off, that's prolly a convienient way to disable it.. to what degree who knows.

the other question is, why is this relay failing? it seems like it does after 500 uses. It's supposed to last 200,000 cycles at 20amps.

does that board get particularily hot?

interestingly, the datasheet for that relay, had 'not for new design' all over it. so seems like they 've revised it .

if it's the relay that controls the 'wiper ready' position, then maybe it's just staying on too long, and doesnt take the heat like it should !!
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Postby Gizmo42 » Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:44 pm

it may be marked 'alarm' since the 'horn' is part of the alarm system, so if you had 'problems' with it going off, that's prolly a convienient way to disable it.. to what degree who knows.


I dont know about first gens or troopers but on 2nd gen rodeos they have a seperate horn for the alarm which is controled by the black box marked "keyless entry & anti-theft". The horn for it is on the passenger fenderwell by the ABS controller. The box marked "Alarm" does have the little peizzo speaker that dings when you leave your keys in the ignition or lights on, maybe thats what they consider the alarm.

the other question is, why is this relay failing? it seems like it does after 500 uses. It's supposed to last 200,000 cycles at 20amps.

does that board get particularily hot?


As far as I can tell the board doesnt get very hot. There are other parts that would fail from heat long before the contacts do. And there was no evidence on mine that any part of it got warm enough to discolor it. I think what killed mine is the wiper arm kept sticking which would have probably pulled high amps until it broke loose.
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hmm relays were good!!

Postby Sh_YVR » Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:54 am

i pulled the board out on my 2000 rodeo. The relays seemed to be good, but i still I swaped one .. note: my 2000 had more smaller relays , anyone know what they are for? they all seemed to work under a 9v battery... ALso, the module had a different IC , smaller board mounted...

Interestingly, while testing I was able to move the wiper blade, without too much resistance..... then when I shut of the engine, it did a full sweep, then returned to the start/inactive position.


The relay 'clicked' RY4 when the button was pushed, and the wiper was in the start position, but then when i moved the blade up a bit, I couldnt hear the clicking anymore - when pushing the button.

Anyone know what to test next ? Anyone swap the relay for a 2000 rodeo or greater? RY4 in the diagram seemed to be in about the same position..
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Postby sh3rp4 » Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:25 pm

This is very cool.

I have a couple questions. Please excuse me if they are misplaced - I'm new to the board.

My 99 Passport's rear wipers stopped working. I am getting voltage to the motor. i took the motor apart and can see the connections that go back to.... a controller? I can get the motor to run and cause it to stop by jumping the connections going back to the controller, so I am pretty sure the motor is fine, there is no binding, etc.

basically, the motor will run once, stop, but when it should run again it just jugs a tiny bit and stops. A few seconds go by and it jogs a tiny bit and stops.

I read that the rear wipers going is a pretty comon problem. I went through the Haynes Manual and it suggest replacing the rear wiper motor, but I really don't think that is the problem.

Again, thanks for the help and nice bit of work on the board.
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Postby Gizmo42 » Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:48 pm

Sounds like the relay giving out. Thats what mine did when it finally stopped working all together.
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Postby drwasilko » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:05 am

Thanks to everyone’s efforts, you have saved me well over $300 in repairs to my 2001 Rodeo 4WD. My problem was with the rear wiper. Over the last few months I noticed the rear wiper would just stick or move erratic over the full course off it's sweep. Finally, last week it just died altogether. After researching the WEB, I happened upon this forum, ordered a few relays from Mouser.com, replaced the rear wiper reversing relays, and voila! I'm back in business!

My unit is a bit different from Gizmo's.
Image

I found that RY-3 and RY-4 control the rear wiper motor direction and RY-2 is the main on-off control relay. (RY-3 is removed in this picture and RY-4 is just below RY-3. RY-2 is the smaller Omron next to RY-3.)

Good luck and thanks for all the great images and information!
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Postby ejkz » Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:17 pm

Wipers are fixed !!!!!
I just did this on my 2000 rodeo and it worked like a charm! The relays are available at Mouserelectronics.com. The part # is 551-EQ1-31000S "1 Form C Sealed NEC automotive relays". They are $1.68/relay (buy 3 just incase yougoof or more than 1 is bad). They are a bit smaller than the original relays on the board, but the prongs line up with the pods and mine is working just fine.
Just a little info: You will need to "desolder" the original relay first. The only place I could find a desolder braid/wick was at Radio Shack for about $4.00. USE THE BRAID! -I also bought the bulb desolder, not knowing which would work better, and the bulb doesn't work at all for this.
(1)when removing the alarm control unit...I've seen posts stating you need to remove the black box below the unit first. This is true, but don't struggle with the screws for it. You can simply snap it off the bracket (you'll see where) and push it out of the way. I say this because the screws for the bracket are just impossible to get off. (2) You'll need a philips that's a little flattened at the tip to get the screw for the alarm control unit off. (3) If your front intermittetent wipers are the problem, it is the relay with the small Omron relay above and the big white relay or whatever below.
May sound like silly little things, but every little bit helps when you don't know what you're doing, like me. This was the first time I've soldered anything and it went ok. I had some trouble removing the old relay, but it all worked out. All together I spent $13.00 Relays + shipping, $10.00 soldering gun at Wal-Mart and about $4.00 at Radio shack for the desolder braid so under $30.00 altogether. MUCH better than $200.00 to replace the whole board.
There are great pics at http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?t=5608 to help with the relay and do a Yahoo search for "how to solder" and "how to desolder". Seriously, If a stay-at-home mom with no experience can do this, so can you thanks to all the great pictures and know how provided by this forum! Thanks to everyone who provided these things to help out others!!!!!!!

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Postby Gizmo42 » Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:24 pm

Glad it all worked out for you and works now.

Solder wick is the only way to go. I only use solder suckers for large pools of solder, then finish with the wick. Thats the only way to get ALL the old solder off.

Are the relays alot louder then the fujitsus? I have read some posts from ppl that have used other brands that said they are too loud and get annoying.
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Postby ejkz » Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:08 pm

I honestly have to say that to me it doesn't matter. I'm just so happy to have the problem fixed. The clicking is very loud when you hook up the board to test it. However, once everything is put back in place the glove box muffles most of the sound. And for $30 vs $200 I'm not complaining. I really can't hear a significant difference between the old relay and the knew one. These relays that Mouser is carrying now are not the "silent" version they carried before. I read that on a post as well, but I have to say, I don't find it to be a problem.
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How to "test" relays

Postby monokite » Sat May 13, 2006 1:31 am

Can someone please post some details on how to test the relays?

Would this tester work or do I need something else?

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Postby monokite » Sat May 13, 2006 2:06 am

I'm heading to Radio Shack tomorrow for a desoldering braid/wick and also hopefully the answer to my previous question as well. Everyone's posts here have already been a big help.

You guys know more than my mechanic, that's for damn sure. He pulled the wrong box and told me it was the culprit. Once I did some careful prodding of my own I heard the relay clicks for the working rear wipers coming from the box labeled "Alarm", not the "Keyless Entry / Anti-Theft" box he handed me and said needed replacing. Since my intermittent fronts are not working, it would be relay RY6 in my 2000 Passport (aka Rodeo) according to the earlier post by "ejkz".

Glad I found this forum before starting to replace and resolder relays on the wrong friggin' board! Plus, now I know where that crazy "don't forget your keys, dumbass" beeping comes from! Maybe I'll desolder that baby...
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Postby Gizmo42 » Sat May 13, 2006 2:39 am

As long as that is a 12 volt DC tester and not a 120 volt AC tester (looks like the 120 volt ones I used to see) then it would work.

I have one that looks like the one pictured at http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDeta ... ber=648344

Just connected the aligator clip to ground. Then with the circuit board removed from the box but plugged in and ignition turned on I just probed the solder point on the back of the board (pictured in my first post with the colored dots). My test light acted as a resistive ground and since isuzu switches the ground side touching the right point would make the wiper work.

In that picture you see 2 dots lined up left to right of the same color, then down a bit from that are 3 dots lined up with the center one offset a bit. The first 2 dots are the normally open and normally closed contatcts. Those are the 'switched' side of the relay and grounding one of those 2 should operate the wiper. The center of the 3 dots is the common for the contacts. The 2 outer ones of the offset 3 are the + and - for the coil which makes the relay operate. Grounding one side will do nothing, grounding the other will cause the relay to operate and click.

When I say ground I dont mean just use a wire straight to ground, there is a high probablity of frying something that way. Use a resistive ground such as the test light I described.

I hope this was helpfull and didnt confuse you even more.
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Postby robertgarven » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:27 pm

I am new here so be gentle. :-P
Where can you get the whole board? Can I unhook it and still drive the car without damage? I have only one driver and not sure I can do it all in one day?

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Postby Gizmo42 » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:41 pm

You can buy the board from the dealer for about $200. Might be able to find some from a junk yard for a little less, but no guarantee that the relays in it are good. The relays are about $5, you can do the whole thing for under $30 if you have to buy all the soldering stuff as well.

No idea about unplugging it, you could try it and see what happens. It wont hurt anything.
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Postby robertgarven » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:54 pm

Friends,

I went out to try to find the board you guys are talking about. I took the door off the glove box and to the left is the radio etc, to the middle it is all HVAC, I started to take the thing above that I thought said alarm off oops air bag, :-P, to the right I see something almost impossible to get to. Is that it? I cant seem to post the pics!

Thanks,

Rob Garven
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Postby Grumpfrompahrump » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:07 pm

I replaced the board about a year ago. The part was number is 8-97240-466-0 its made by Denso for Isuzu. Around $200.00

From what I remember, it is located behind the dash under the right hand vent. Not too hard to get at once you find it. There are 2 boxes, you want the one on the top, I think it was grey. You need to remove the lower black one to get to the screws of the top one, but do not disconnect it, there is plenty of slack. Remove the one screw securing the alarm control unit and slide the unit down and out. there are two clip in plugs that connect it to the wiring harness. Plug these into the new part and test your wipers before completing the installation. Be careful not to drop any of the screws you remove, because if you have to pull the kick panel off, it can be tough getting the grommet back together through the hole in the carpet.
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Postby robertgarven » Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:10 pm

Friends,

Well I did it. On my 98 there is only one box in there and my board is simillar to your pics but different. I had bought a cold heat thing and tried to use it , that thing is junk, I think I melted it inside. Anyway got out the old soldering iron and had a hard time getting the thing out but it finnaly came. The nec 31000S legs were a ittle different but I got them in and soldered it. It did not look pretty and I kind of made a small mess of the board. I put it back and thought it would explode but everything seemed to work. It was even a little louder which made me feel like I did it right.

I have a few questions. When I de-soldered and soldered it a little solder ened up touching some of the other contacts. I cleaned it up as much as I could. Are the connections on the inside of the board like a sandwich? If I did get some on the wrong spots how long would I know if something is screwed up. Everything seemed to work. Would I blow a fuse or would my rodeo just explode into flames? :-)

Well anyway thnaks for all the info. I hope I did iy right!!!

Rob
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Postby Gizmo42 » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:02 pm

As long as everything is working now it should be fine. There are no traces in between the board, just on top and bottom.

I've never used the cold heat thing but everyone I've talked to that has says its junk. Glad I didnt waste my money on it. I'll stick with my radio shack butane soldering iron.

The NECs arent 'silent' relays like the factory Fujitsu ones so they will be a bit louder. Some ppl find them anoying, others dont mind.

Glad it all worked out for you and its working now.
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Postby robertgarven » Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:54 pm

Freinds,

I replaced my front wiper relay on Saturday and the car ran fine, I drove it 4 times about 25 miles, total . I got up this morining to go to work and almost instantly the car started shifting hard, clunk every time it changed gears (automatic) and when I went to stop the car it slid two or three times about 2 feet from about 30 mph at a regular stop, like there was something wrong with the ABS. When I went to lunch and came home the car was running just fine. All the lights came on and off at start and had no warning lights light up

1. The board I worked on, does that have any control over the ABS and or automatic shifting?

2. I disconnected my battery when I changed the relay, could this have caused the computer to reboot so to say.

3. That damn alarm box is not the cars ECU is it??

Not sure whether i should bite the bone and by the circiut board or wait and see.
It was extremely hot today and yesterday but I have never had any problems like this before, the only thing I did was work on the board and disconnet the battery at ground?????

Rob :?: :!: :?:
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Postby Gizmo42 » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:40 am

The "alarm and relay" board has nothing to do with the ECU or transmission computer. Disconnecting the batter will reset the computers and they will have to relearn again. Give it a few days and if things dont improve start looking for a problem. It wouldnt have anything to do with the board you worked on though.
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Postby robertgarven » Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:07 am

Gizmo,

Thanks that makes me feel a little better. Where are the other computers? Do you think the Haynes Rodeo manual is worth getting? Is the ABS computer on that board?
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Postby BFD » Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:18 pm

Which is the part to use? Posts above mentioned two relays... 1. 551-EQ1-31000S (in stock) and 2. 817-FTR-P1CN012N (out of stock)...

I have a 1999 Rodeo. Thanks!
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Re: Wiper relay replacement

Postby haring » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:52 pm

Gizmo42 wrote:I'm not sure if this belongs here or in the electronics section so feel free to move it.

I just finished replacing the relays for my wipers and took some pics and notes that I thought I would post here. I spent about 1.5 hrs and at least half of that time was testing to see what each relay did. I used a 12 volt test light which esentially grounds the pin with a light as a small load. Apparently the switches connect the ground side of the relay coils since touching one side just gave me a light and touching the other side made the relay operate with the switch off. The relays are in the box marked "Alarm" which actually has nothing to do with the alarm system that I can see.

Sorry the pics are kind of blurry, I should have used macro mode..

Top of the board with relays removed
Image

Notice the solder pads and traces on the top. I think they are double soldered so if something doesnt work right after replacing the relay you might not have gotten enough solder to reach the top pads, or didnt heat the relay pin properly.

Back of the board with the solder points for each relay marked..
Image

Top of the board again with new relays in and labled..
Image

RY1 = horn
RY2 = front wipers
RY3 = not sure but touching the common for the contacts operated the rear wiper. Touching the coil did nothing that I could see.
RY4 = rear wiper
RY5 = rear washer pump

I bought mine from Mouser Electronics for $5.10 each. Apparently they stock the original Fujitsu ones now. Part number 817-FTR-P1CN012N. I ordered 3 since I wasnt sure which was the rear wiper and just replaced them all.

As a side note, if you break one open you will find a smaller Fujitsu FBR-51ND12-W relay inside wrapped in rubber. Thats how they make them quiet.



Hello this is Haring from the nederlands
Gizmo, thanks for your pictures and text.
My wipers went dead during holidy. I found your text and now i'm searching for the part P1CN012N. is it possible that you send me 3 of these relays? I can only order them with a amount of 1000 pcs. If you reply me i can pay in advandce.
Greeting from the cold Netherlands Ben Haring mob nr. 06-51398003
many thanks
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