Automatic transmission cooler install *with pics* '01 Rodeo

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Postby mick4x4 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:15 am

Thanks for all your help, I fitted my B&M kit yesterday and fixed a kenlowe 7â€
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Postby mick4x4 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:24 am

I just want to get my head round overcooling having read surferJoe’s post.

I have connected the B&M 70268 supercooler before the stock cooler in the radiator, and fixed it to the air conditioner radiator along with an 7â€
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Postby SurferJoe » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:31 pm

I think there's some confusion about OD qualification (for it's application via a green board condition) and fluid temp.

OD is not the same as TCC lock up - they are totally different in function and time- qualification.

Although they are both controlled by road speed, coolant temp, throttle position and other requirements, they have different reasons for engaging or not.

TCC can be called in as a defensive device to lower fluid temps under abusive conditions - and that's one of the great values to TCC - but it is not to be confused with OD.

OD is IN the transmission - Lock Up is IN the converter in most situations - there are some exceptions like a few Ford units - but we are talkin' Isuzu here.

Typically, TCC is the last 'shift-like' bump you can feel after OD is in and established, although TCC is also qualified in 2, 3 and OD under legacy conditions in the ECM/TCM.

Some times however, TCC happens very close to simultaneously with either OD or DIRECT application/shifts.

SIDEBAR: IF TCC was IN during a shift, it would be very harsh and extremely firm - attesting to the fact that the other friction packs do not slip or slide when they apply. If they DO slip - it only happens a few times until they smoke and fail.

So - in a nutshell ---

1st is a REDUCTION gear
2nd is a REDUCTION gear
3rd is a DIRECT gear
OD is what it says: an OVERDRIVE gear or a MULTIPLICATION gear.

REVERSE OTOH - may be part of LOW and REVERSE reduction gears and can be an entirely different ratio than either 1st/LOW or 2nd/INTERMEDIATE Gear.There are exceptions.

[llist]This situation does NOT apply in many Chrysler units as they are always in either Underdrive or Overdrive and have no Direct drive condition. [/list]
TCC/Lock Up is a clutch that applies to lock the torque converter into a solid, contiguous connection between the engine crankshaft and the input drum of the transmission. It is usually inside the torque converter but there are some exceptions.

The clutch that holds the crankshaft to the input shaft of the transmission acts much the same way in function as a manual clutch does in a 4 or 5 speed manual shift transmission. This way there is no fluid absorbing rotational energy from the engine, acting as a 'torque converter' and creating heat and wasting fuel and keeping engine RPM higher that is needed.

With a TCC system, the torque converter can have a very high stall speed - good for acceleration and low numerical number/ratio differentials.

The closer you get to 1:1 in the differential, the more efficient it is, although mechanical disadvantage occurs and vehicle acceleration suffers.

This is great for fuel economy as the losses attributable to the drag of gear reduction is cut significantly through heat (again) and energy losses in high ratio differentials

Since that is not a good way to get acceleration to satisfy needs such as off-road and rapid acceleration, the torque converter is designed to 'slip', if you will - to allow the engine to get to it's best power band and give some decent numbers and seat-of-the-pants satisfaction.

Then once to speed, the TCC is applied, negating slip and energy losses.

Overcooling should not keep OD or TCC from happening, although it will keep the chemical plasticizers in the fluid from working correctly to keep the seals supple and working for a long time.
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Postby mick4x4 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:04 pm

Thanks for that some interesting reading, is there any tell tale signs of overcooling or should I be ok with the cooler fit before the stock cooler as the B&M cooler has a oil by pass feature if it’s too cold
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Postby SurferJoe » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:49 pm

Having the aux cooler before the standard heat exchange unit in the radiator is a good idea if you have hot enough seasons or work the unit hard and need to keep the extra thermal load off the engine's cooling system.

Actually - having a cooler take out some heat first and then having the heat exchanger add some to normal temps, also takes some therms out of the radiator and actually helps cool the engine.

Remember that both the engine and the transmission like to be above the minimum heat established for them and going lower is to kill the engine for wear and condensation problems, and the transmission for not enough heat to make the additives in the ATF to protect the unit.

FWIW:
Transmissions like 180-200ºF and engines like it a little hotter - up to 230ºF for longevity.

Most engine thermostats open at 190ºF now, and some of the newest ones are set to fully open at 225-230ºF. These are the thermally-modulated, newer style units.
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Postby mick4x4 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:20 am

When fitting an oil temp gage is it better to fit it in the line the oil comes out of the box or the return line from the cooler to the box.

Which one will give the correct operating temp of the box
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Postby Dae » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:31 pm

mick4x4 wrote:When fitting an oil temp gage is it better to fit it in the line the oil comes out of the box or the return line from the cooler to the box.

Which one will give the correct operating temp of the box

This is quoting from SurferJoe...

"Put the temp sender unit in the pressure tap (line pressure test) to get a real heat value and that way you get to see what the trans has to work with!

This is a sample on a Ford Trans I did: Image

This way you can tell if the trans is getting hot, not when it's too late.

MOST transmissions have their pressure tap on the driver's side of the case, close to the front of the case and right behind the bellhousing.

In Australia/NZ and some UK-type places, the driver sits on the right (oops, I edited that after I noticed I had made it backwards) side of the vehicle as you are sitting in the front seat of the vehicle"



nickya, says that the line-pressure rest plug is onthe left side of the 4l30e, just above the overdrive pan. And a little tricky to get to.

I believe the plug is also self grounding... so no need for more wires.
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Postby FrankO » Tue May 03, 2011 10:49 pm

I have an external cooler in addition to the heat exchanger in the radiator. I tow a lot in baja when it is hot and I had been having big problems with my tranny after slow towing in a lot of heat.
Hopefully this will address the issue.
I also installed the Torque app on my Android and bought the bluetooth OBD II sender unit. It, or I haven't figured it out yet, doesn't read the tranny temp even though it has the capability but it does read coolant temp which hovers around 190F at idle and drops to around 170F underway, especially on the freeway. And today was 90ish here in San Diego so I am happy with that.
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Re: Automatic transmission cooler install *with pics* '01 Ro

Postby mick4x4 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:37 am

I fit my B&M cooler back in feb but whilst servicing my truck a couple of weeks ago i noticed the pipe work that came with the cooler had started to crack where it bends, i have now fit better quality pipe and will keep my eye on it, might be worth checking yours.
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Re: Automatic transmission cooler install *with pics* '01 Ro

Postby Dae » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:46 pm

mick4x4, are you talking about the rubber hoses or the fittings on the cooler itself? My hoses are still fine.
I threw away the thin and flimsy hose that came with my Hayden kit before I even started installing it.

I got a some good cooler hose from Jegs. I also used some Goodyear hose and its holding up just fine.
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Re: Automatic transmission cooler install *with pics* '01 Ro

Postby mick4x4 » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:50 pm

its was the hose that came with the kit
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Re: Automatic transmission cooler install *with pics* '01 Ro

Postby streetersam » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:02 am

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I was thinking about how hot my transmission gets.

Does it do anything to add a cooler to a manual tranny? I noticed all the write-ups in this thread are auto tranny

I would assume that any tranny would operate better at a lower temperature, but maybe it's only a problem for autos...

The reason I ask is because I'm going to put 33's on when summer rolls around, and I don't wanna blow my tranny (aisin ar-5)

Input?
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Re: Automatic transmission cooler install *with pics* '01 Ro

Postby WillyLin » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:21 am

[quote="streetersam"]Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I was thinking about how hot my transmission gets.

Does it do anything to add a cooler to a manual tranny? I noticed all the write-ups in this thread are auto tranny

I would assume that any tranny would operate better at a lower temperature, but maybe it's only a problem for autos...

The reason I ask is because I'm going to put 33's on when summer rolls around, and I don't wanna blow my tranny (aisin ar-5)

Input?[/quote]

I am not too sure about manual trans. but it sure do help with auto ones.

I think your 5 speed would do just fine without cooler, some people do 5 speed with 35" are just fine. clutch is more important to watch for I think? i donno.... haven't driven too much manuals yet...
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Re: Automatic transmission cooler install *with pics* '01 Ro

Postby 1999Amigo4WD » Sat May 23, 2015 3:57 pm

Found this post looking for details on how to remove the radiator grill on my Passport. Thanks to OP, I have exact details! (Original Poster)

As far as a transmission cooler for a manual, I've never heard of one. Autos need them to keep the internal clutches and friction bands from failing due to excessive heat soak at high temperatures. You have a lot of small seals and o-rings in those that do not like being cooked in oil. LOL!

Your manual has a clutch in the bellhousing and unless it is slipping, once in gear does not generate extra heat and neither should your transmission internals.

Autos are a completely different animal and need to be protected from operating outside design temperature tolerances.

A stick 427 Shelby cobra two seater has a cooler in the front, but it is an oil cooler for the engine, not for the manual. That may be what you are thinking of.
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Re: Automatic transmission cooler install *with pics* '01 Ro

Postby Richey » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:06 pm

My 2000 Rodeo is in Alaska, do you think I really need an extra cooler? Im all for it but I dont want it causing me troubles in -20F weather. It gets 85 in the summers though.
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