Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mods

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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:47 am

Got my bore scope and of course had to try it out through the shift fork boot, but alas, it's a little tough to get it where I need it to see stuff, so I'm going to pull the slave cyl and starter to get a little more access. May get the dust cover as well and see what I can see.

Sorry for the lack of progress and fun pics and wheelin' and whatnot! I hate threads like this one :D :drunken: :mrgreen:
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby hessmess » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:47 pm

I hope it works, there is a chance that the seal on the front of the trans went south also.
86 Trooper (sold to brother) wrecked and recycled
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91 Trooper, 3.1, bored .40, Cam, 4.3 TBI, roller rockers, Fiero valve covers, remote oil filter, LSD, 2.25 Cat back exhaust, BJ flip, 5 speed conversion, Round eye conversion-retired and parts donated to the new 91
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby bradzuzu » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:17 am

Don't worry Paul we all have our slow hateful times :)
I'm fighting the hateful part right now myself , burning the candle at both ends to get stuff done and I keep finding more problems ...
91 amigo sas toy front leaf- traded off :(
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby hessmess » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:02 pm

I just went and looked at that borescope, looks pretty cool! I hope that you can get it to go where you need to see. I need to look at a sewer line in my other house. I may pick one up myself.
86 Trooper (sold to brother) wrecked and recycled
88 Trooper (recycled)
91 Trooper, 3.1, bored .40, Cam, 4.3 TBI, roller rockers, Fiero valve covers, remote oil filter, LSD, 2.25 Cat back exhaust, BJ flip, 5 speed conversion, Round eye conversion-retired and parts donated to the new 91
91 LS Trooper, 5 speed, 3.4, bored intake, LSD, rebuilt using parts donated from the first 91
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=81567
89 Pup LS Space Cab, 4X4, AMC head, Delta 260 cam, 2.25 cat back exhaust system, LSD
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:36 pm

I yanked the starter and dust cover off and snaked the borescope in there to see what's what...AAAND I couldn't tell anything out of the ordinary :| I'm beginning to think that (knock on wood) it may have just been some leftover oil that was able to escape the front of the bellhousing/dustcover area that had potentially leaked down there during various oil fill mishaps, oil priming, and when the valve cover was misaligned and leaked a bunch. After it sat for a week, and after wiping it down, and with the dust cover removed, I got it to turn over last night and fire up for a few seconds before the battery was too dead to keep trying. I did a lot of cranking trying to find the timing sweet spot, so there should have been full oil pressure. I didn't see any new oil leaking immediately after, but I will be checking again when I get home after work.

Crossing fingers....
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
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Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby bradzuzu » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:52 pm

That would be nice , lets hope that's all that was going on ...
91 amigo sas toy front leaf- traded off :(
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custom built buggy ffor the dirty stuff

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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:07 am

I think it might have been - hopefully dodged that bullet. But now I can't get the starter to kick over! I thought the battery was dead, so I charged it for about 24 hrs and now I'm not getting anything when I turn the key. One of my battery clamps was cracked so maybe that was it. Everything else looks ok. Always something. Grabbing some new clamps after work and by God we are getting this hog running tonight!
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:18 pm

The saga continues! A new chapter: Electric gremlins :evil:

Starter needed to be bypassed with jumper cables in order to work, and I believe it's the hot side.

Spark plugs no longer sparkin'.

I will delve deeper into this mess tomorrow.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby bradzuzu » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:11 am

Man Paul one thing to another , I'm really sorry that the truck keeps plaguing you damn !!
91 amigo sas toy front leaf- traded off :(
2000 amigo sas d44 wagonear 4 link
custom built buggy ffor the dirty stuff

My build up page
Four link pics
Intake R&R - port and polish

Sometimes trying is all you can do, but when you succeed , that's something to be proud of...
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:36 am

I'm going through it thoroughly today, crossing fingers!
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby chuffer » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:36 pm

Trooper + Steep incline + molotov cocktail = no more worries...other than explaining to police what happened...
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:07 pm

chuffer wrote:Trooper + Steep incline + molotov cocktail = no more worries...other than explaining to police what happened...


I was SO close to this. Found the oil to be leaking again after last night's work.

But, determined to get the electrical things worked out: I put new terminals on the battery/cables, cleaned up and relocated a few grounds, popped on a new cap and rotor button, and lo and behold! She started! There was some horrendous sound, but that turned out to be the fan hitting the shroud. Moved the shroud a little and would you believe she actually IDLED!!!! 700 rpm all day long baby. But she's pure-T pissing oil from either the pan gasket, rear main, or cam seal/gasket (on the back of the block above the rear main). I went to work setting the timing with the light, and I got it workable, but it was letting so much oil out I knew there'd be no way I could run it for the 30min @ 2500rpm cam break-in period.

So, I know I'm going to have to pull the trans to get the leaks fixed. This SUCKS but this should be the last major obstacle. Between the bellhousing, slave cyl, starter, and flywheel, I'm somewhere around 30 bolts off and back on away from being done with the suckiest part. I do not want to rush this, no matter how bad I want to make it to Uwharrie in 2 weeks. But I'm going to do my best. :twisted:
Last edited by paulevans76 on Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:37 pm

Trans is out! Dug in and got'r'dun. Wife n kids coming back home tomorrow, so it will be my last (half) day to work on it for a while. I'm going to clean the trans, get it rigged up securely on the jack for re-installation, pull the clutch and flywheel and generally get things ready for when the gasket and seal kit shows up. I'm anxious to see how I might have goofed the rear main or whatever. Hell it may be the pan gasket. It's due to arrive as fast as amazon can ship it - Tuesday at the latest.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs

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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby chuffer » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:53 pm

Well, it started and idled. That's good.

On the oil leak I so feel your pain. Stinky still leaves a quarter sized mark on the garage floor every time I start her. (I stay "start" her, because I haven't actually driven the poor thing in months...)
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:19 pm

Removed clutch and flywheel, cleaned the block off, removed the diz, primed the oil pump, and voila:

Image

Nsfw because I say a naughty word:
Watch on youtube.com


I don't think the pan is leaking, I think it's all conning croon that cam cover thing I was suspicious about all along.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby lorenzo816 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:32 pm

looks like the pan gasket and the thing up top with the three bolts is leaking good.
May wanna try a different technique on the install with the RTV and gaskets.
I put sealant on, get the gasket positioned, then finger tight all the bolts. I then find something else to do for like 20-30 minutes and then tighten some more with a 1/4" driver so as not to start torquing yet. Make sense? That way the RTV has time to start setting.
Then I torque maybe an hour later.
Oh and I don't put oil in it for like a day so everything hardens.

You may have some gouges or uneven surfaces on those areas causing the gaskets to puke when pressurized.
just thinking here. 2 cents advice.
I feel ya pain main. Keep at it.
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:30 pm

lorenzo816 wrote:looks like the pan gasket and the thing up top with the three bolts is leaking good.


I'm pretty sure it's the cam cover thing up there leaking and running down on everything else. Hard to tell for sure, but I don't think anything else is leaking. We'll see!

In other interesting news, I didn't ever notice before but my LUK clutch kit came with a Valeo pressure plate and disc. It was plastic wrapped in a LUK box, too. Hope it holds up, because I was really hoping for Exedy/OEM level performance when I bought the LUK, as I'd read it was on par. We'll see.

And yeah, I can't wait to enjoy the trooper again, especially with MODERATE POWER!!! :drunken:
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby lorenzo816 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:57 pm

Well I had Exedy the last go around and the throwout bearing retainer clip snapped.
Requiring me to pull trans again, I had no time back then so I had to pay for mechanic to do it, :-/ $$!
This time I got luk but sucks to have pull trans and clutch on new parts!
Not sure how I feel about exedy now even after Jerry told me they were oem on some isuzus,
He did say get Luk though, said was just as good as exedy.
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:00 pm

I just figured they'd user their own parts in their kits! Haha. Didn't expect to see valeo parts.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby hessmess » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:41 am

I have been meaning to mention that after the 3.4 conversion you may want to pick up an ECM from a Rodeo that had the 3.1 in it. It will plug right in. It has wider parameters for the sensors. If you start throwing engine codes for no good reason this will usually get rid of them. Also one from a Chevy Lumina van with the 3.1 will plug right in. I can't remember the number. I will look at mine after awhile and see if I can see the number. The 2.8 will work but the 3.1 computer is just a tad better.
86 Trooper (sold to brother) wrecked and recycled
88 Trooper (recycled)
91 Trooper, 3.1, bored .40, Cam, 4.3 TBI, roller rockers, Fiero valve covers, remote oil filter, LSD, 2.25 Cat back exhaust, BJ flip, 5 speed conversion, Round eye conversion-retired and parts donated to the new 91
91 LS Trooper, 5 speed, 3.4, bored intake, LSD, rebuilt using parts donated from the first 91
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=81567
89 Pup LS Space Cab, 4X4, AMC head, Delta 260 cam, 2.25 cat back exhaust system, LSD
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:56 am

hessmess wrote:I have been meaning to mention that after the 3.4 conversion you may want to pick up an ECM from a Rodeo that had the 3.1 in it. It will plug right in. It has wider parameters for the sensors. If you start throwing engine codes for no good reason this will usually get rid of them. Also one from a Chevy Lumina van with the 3.1 will plug right in. I can't remember the number. I will look at mine after awhile and see if I can see the number. The 2.8 will work but the 3.1 computer is just a tad better.


A while back before I started the swap, while trying to figure out the best setup, I chatted with Geoff about using the 3.1 ECM, but he said that with the 4.3 TB and injectors, it would over-fuel.

But on an interesting side/related note, I did see a chart recently that had the lb/hr flow ratings for different GM TBI injectors. What stuck out as interesting was that the 305 V8 was rated at 40lb/hr - lower than the 4.3 (45lb/hr), but higher than the 2.8 (33 lb/hr). But, unfortunately after further research, I see them referenced other areas at 50 and 55 lb/hr, so like all things on the internet, it's impossible to know for sure.

Seems like many people who have done the swap report that the 2.8 injectors can't keep up, and the 4.3 injectors over-fuel a bit even with the 2.8 computer. I think for those keeping the 2.8 injectors, the 3.1 ECM will help with the fueling. Should I experience symptoms, and if I could confirm with an expert that they were 40lb/hr, I'd look into them, potentially paired with the 3.1 computer.

I'm hoping to eventually have a rock solid reliable setup with as much power as I can squeeze out of it without eating into that reliability. I'm starting with the 4.3 injectors and stock ECM, and will go from there. Thanks for lookin' out!
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby btw1549 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:05 pm

As someone that ran the 2.8l intake manifold and TBI unit on a 3.4 I can tell you above 3000 RPM it just dogs. It idles fantastic and at lower RPMs feels like it has sufficient power but once you get into 3k it starts to suck for life. To fix it I did trick the ECM into thinking it was cold still with the coolant temp sender so I'm wondering if the 3.1l ECM with the 2.8l TBI would work. I think it would still starve for air though so maybe with a 3.1l ECM, 4.3l bored out intake manifold and TBI with the 2.8l injectors it would work? I don't have a 3.1 ECM otherwise I would give it a try.

Here's to making it to Ure next weekend!
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:04 am

Got the little cam cover thing off and I received the new gasket set - thankfully including the needed gasket - which is cork with little crush washers. Had to use a lot of elbow grease to get all the rtv and funk off of the cover.

I looked through my FSM V6 supplement and couldn't find a torque spec on it, but considering it's 10mm bolts and just a cover, I'm assuming it's going to be around 15-20 lb-ft. I'm going to pull the one off the old 2.8 and see if there's any RTV on it or if it's just gasket to make sure I do it correctly. After it's on, I'll prime the oil pump and bring up the pressure and see if anything else leaks before manhandling the trans back into place.

Then, we feast (on gasoline).
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby lorenzo816 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:22 am

So much win!

Yeah I agree on your torque assumptions.
Good luck homie.
Looking forward to it done!
1997 Solid Axle Rodeo :: Ar5 swap :: Revo 4Lo :: 5.29/5.36 :: Front OX :: Rear ARB :: Full Float
MY Pictures and Videos and Build: 3-link coilover front 44 & rear FZJ80 on 37's
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby chuffer » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:28 am

I hate those cork gaskets with the little steel pucks. VW used them on the 4 popper valve covers forever and I could never get more than a couple of 10k km out of them. You can't get a rubber version of just that gasket?
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