The Fat Lady 88trooper SAS & dual case build

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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby paulevans76 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:41 am

If you were running a shackle on the back end of the spring, you'd have a good amount of room to stuff it the way you have it now, but with shackles up front and the arc of the spring pivoting off the rear mount, you don't have to worry about it getting into the firewall at all. Might be a good idea to move it back a little bit. You have a sweet approach angle, but with 35's you could move the axle back 2" and not lose any of it. I know it sucks to lose even a few inches of driveshaft length, but you probably also would want to fill in a little more of the gap between the tire and back of the fender, lest you get a nice rock/log crammed in there, rather than move from the tire to the slider.

I wouldn't turn the spring around and have the shackle and long end of the spring out front, especially with a drastically offset spring like those.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby chuffer » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:52 am

Agree on the spring flip even though I mentioned it. I thought the OP had mentioned it in his post and assumed he knew the pros & cons.

Also agree on the axles looking like it is a little too far forward. I think in addition to having a great place to trap rocks and logs you are also going to have a hell of a time doing your steering like that...unless you go behind the axle.
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:26 am

I've had a bit of time in the shop, not a whole bunch.

Gave the snowflakes a quick acid wash and hit them with some black paint.

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Picked up a set of 36x12.5 swampers and got them on to see how it looks

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A few inches from full bump. Working out some steering issue, going to clearance the body mount(it rubs full lock) and trim up the bumper, but there's room to grow for the future.

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Now for the steering.. I considered making the factory box work, not feasible, mocked up a Astro van box(ingside frame forward arm) and there would have been a few things to do to make it fit, looking for a better alternative I grabbed a 2wd Toyota box. Making it fit wasn't bad, it actually lined up in two of the factory holes and steering shaft slipped on!
Anyways pitman facing rearward placed my drag link behind the tie rod, not good, so I flipped it forward to see what it would look like. Aside from steering backwards and some fore aft angle it "could" work. 3/4" drop arm would take away clearance issues.

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I obviously didn't like that set up and reverse steering wasn't going to work so I went back to the wrecker and pulled a Toyota fj60 box. It mounts outside frame, forward arm. Two of its holes with a little trimming line up with factory, but it places the pitman arm pretty far forward. It a guy was linking and stretched a ton it would work aswell. I played around with different positions, obviously moved it back some. I'm going to end up clearacing some of my frame but I'll have full steering and suspension movement with no contact or binding. I plan to run a flat pitman, ill clearance the frame, then finish off the mount and continue playing the flarme.
Photo is almost at full bump, jack ran out. The is a little better than an inch from tie rod to pitman, and the pitman isn't fully seated. I may rotate it forward a little bit.

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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby paulevans76 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:28 am

Nice. I may look into the 60 box as well to take care of a few issues I've run into. I've got the stock box moved way forward, but it only works as is because of my dumb body lift. So when I reduce the body lift, I'll either have to move the rad to the pass side an inch or so, or change to a different box. I'll have to look into other potential interference issues with the box on the outside of the frame.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby Jonesy » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:03 pm

I'll throw out there that a Ford F150/Bronco box (78-79 years) is a good alternative. It's outboard mounting & forward facing and has a good amount of power turning the 37's I have...it does stick forward a little more then I'd prefer, but so far it's worked fine. i know the owner of Addicted Offroad used it on his 4Runner with 37's and never felt he needed hydro assist. They can be a little harder to come by however....and I'm not sure if it would pose a problem with a leaf sprung truck

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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:04 pm

If your tie rod was flipped under the arms(if the clearance was there) or if it was below the leafs it would be much easier to mount the 60 box, even angled with a 3/4" drop or factory 2" drop pitman would make it a better fitting package with less fabricating.
However with the way I'm set up, trying to stay low and maintain good uptravel I'm fighting for clearance.


I had considered the ford box. 78-79 outside frame forward arm, and 80-96 f-series and RBV's have inside frame forward. I'm actually a ford guy and my Isuzu's are the only vehicle I own that aren't blue ovals, so I have a few of them. I did not use one because my marlin steering kit uses fj80 TRE's(commonly reamed into Toyota pitman arms and cheap) the steering shaft from the trooper does not match the splines which is one less thing to build, as well the line fittings are a different size. I may not be able to use all of the factory Isuzu power steering lines, but I will still retain the same sized fittings.
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:41 pm

It's been awhile since I've updated this. Been busy taking care of some customers projects but I got a few hours in this weekend before I ran out of welding gas.

Managed to get the ubolt elimators built in the front, I haven't cut the lower perches off yet as they don't really bother me too much Right now.
I finished up the steering box mount, clearancing the frame, and got the axle back under it. Gave the back a spring over, it has a 1-1.5" rake towards the front which should level out once loaded up with tools parts and camping gear. I'm sitting at 6'7" to the roof on 36" tsl's.


Steering box mount sleeved, boxed and welded to the frame, it's built out of 1/4" plate and I used 3/4" sched 40 pipe for the sleeves.
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Frame cut out
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Plated with the pitman arm and steering installed. I used 1/4" to plate on the underside and going forward. Plenty of clearance throughout it's swing. You can also see where I shortened up the body mount and added a few smaller 1/4" gussets.
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Before I left I taped some lines to trim the fender/bumper and started cutting some 1/8" plate to continue plating the frame back to the cab mounts. Now that I am almost done all of the major fabrication, I'm going to flex it out again so I can measure for driveshafts, shocks, and bumpstops. I'll be bringing it home to free up the shop space and I'll tinker on getting the brake lines done, I'd also like to delete the clutch damper, give it a good cleaning and touch up the paint at the same time. Once that's done and I build the shafts I'll bring it back to the shop to deal with the shock mounts and rear crossmember.


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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby paulevans76 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:21 am

Love it man. 6'7" to the roof is really good for these rigs. I think they were 6' to the roof stock. Mine is right around 7' on 35's with the stupid 3" body lift.

Steering box setup looks great. I have coil bucket/shock mount stuff in the way or else I'd be copying it.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby Ruination » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:10 am

paulevans76 wrote: Similar to this: Image



Hey... I recognize that.. that's an F-Toy!!
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby paulevans76 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:12 pm

Ruination wrote:
paulevans76 wrote: Similar to this: Image



Hey... I recognize that.. that's an F-Toy!!


Correct! :mrgreen:
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:36 pm

UPDATES!!

TFL drove out Of the shop under her own power today! I'll get to the pictures.

Shortened trooper steering shaft attached to fj60 box, nothing fancy.

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Rear perches/ubolt elimator for the rear spring over. I still have to pick up some grade8 9/16 fine threads to replace the grade5 1/2" bolts I had in the bolt bin. Tacked them up and used the opportunity to pull out the tig. I've had it for a year and been practicing on steel, SS, and aluminum here and there when I get the chance. In reality I have maybe 15 hours on it, I'm happy with the progress I've made.
I also relocated the brake line tabs to give me a bit of room beside the perch.

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I picked up a 1stgen yota shaft at the wrecker. Pulled the tcase flange off and drilled in the axle side pattern... then I realized it was different from the tcase pattern so I redrilled it. I don't think I'll have any strength issues with 3sets of holes but I'll probable grab and extra off one of my parts troops, fill the zoo holes and build it up to match the OD of the toy flange as the edges hang off a hair. I'll wait till this one breaks tho, if it does.

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The toy shaft was too short in factory form. I scabbed together a spacer out of 2x4 so I can move it around for now. You can see in the photo it's right at the end of the splines. After a flax text with the spacer it looks like if I add 2.5" to it, it will work fine with the stock slip!

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The rear shaft I don't have on yet and I'm waiting to lengthen the front. The reason being I'm toying with the idea of building a doubler for better low range for nearly free vs spending the $$ on Tera's. I would want to convert the rear to a fixed yoke with a slip in the shaft if I go one piece. So I figure if I'm pulling it apart anyways to convert to fixed yoke and install teras I may as well take the extra time to build a doubler and save some $$
The other option is to grab a rear slip section from an auto trooper, see if I can make it work without too much trouble and buy Tera's, add 2.5" to the front and be done.

I'm on the fence, the dual transfercases is more work but less money, where as the Tera's will be more money but less messing around. I am not 100% sure an auto shaft will work well enough. The stock shaft if currently about an inch from the rear flange, and only has moves an inch or two either way during travel. Does anyone have a measurement for the amount of slip on a factory auto trooper rear shaft section?
The thing I like about this option is if the rear worked, I could add the 2.5" to the front, run it the way it is for now and upgrade to Tera's later.
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:42 pm

Now that's out of the way, here's the photos everyone wants to see.

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Brought it home from the shop.

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The finish list
- wait for flat pitman to show up in the mail(precious arm in photos was a friends used for mock up
-trim bumper
-brake lines
-powersteering lines
-shocks
- driveshafts/Tera's or doubler
-clean it
-touch up paint

Then it's wheelin time! I'd love to try and make a trip south this year for the October run if it's still happening!
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:17 pm

Got her home and off the trailer. Still sitting at 6'7 in height on he 36s

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Had to get a photo of all my trucks since it's not very often they are in the same place at the same time, or all in one piece.. mostly :lol:

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Once I got it into the garage, I finally trimmed up the fenders and bumper, looks much better now.
I gave them a quick coat of paint and added a bolt in the front bottom corner to stop them from flapping around.

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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby paulevans76 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:58 am

Great work!

I'd definitely recommend the doubler over tera/revos. Get an auto case with 2.66 gears. That will give you a good trail gear and a good rock crawl gear in low/low. Plus the front driveshaft will then be long enough to allow you to really flex in the front without binding.

You're building yours pretty much exactly how I'd build mine if I was starting over. Keep up the good work.

PS I'd probably start saving pennies for hydro assist. Once you're rolling bigger than 35s you can definitely feel the need for it.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:46 pm

suprisingly there was no binding in the front shaft on articulation! slight contact on the crossmember at droop, I'll deal with that :twisted:

now onto this dual case project...
ive read brads thread about a million times, as well a few others. alot of the old links ive saved over the years dont work anymore.

i have a question regarding the transfercases. From what ive read my 88 trooper equipped with the mua5 should have a 2.28:1 low, and automatics had 2.66:1. I have a extra transfercase from an automoatic rodeo for the double project, it however is not in front of me to check the ratio(stored in the parts barn 1hr away.
ive been finding conflicting information on rodeo low range ratios. Ive read the rodeos were 2.28:1, 2.66:1 and 2.02:1.
can anyone clarify? id like to avoid using a 2.02:1 case..
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby bradzuzu » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:39 pm

The 2:66:1 came from a 95 auto trooper I think , the other ones would still be the 2:26:1 ratio ...

She's looking good and much more functional too !!
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby paulevans76 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:22 pm

I think most of the manual cases came with 2.28:1, a lot of the zu auto's were 2.05:1, but the auto 2nd gen troopers were 2.66:1?...can't recall the year range, but 95-97 seems right? I wonder about the 92-94's though, as well as the 89-91 1st gens.... Maybe the troopers were all 2.66's, and the rodeo's/amigo's were the 2.05's?

I've got a 2.05 that I was going to use on my duals project, but I may do some swapping around if/when I get to it. I mean ultimately, if worst comes to worst, the ~2:1 reduction will still be pretty sweet and definitely needed when you get out into to some gnarly rocks and you're hoping to idle through vs 3-foot it.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:13 pm

A slight bit of progress.

Working on brake lines. I cut the line tabs off the backing plates, welded a little 1/8" to it and drilled a hole for a caliper bolt to go through. I bent up some new lines and hooked them up to see how it looked. Monday is "family day here in Canada so Tuesday I'll be going to get some longer rubber lines made.

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On the back end, you can see how I repositioned the rubber lines for the SOA. The hard lines didn't come out as "pretty" as I wanted but they will get the job done. I trailer most places I go, brake lines make strapping a pain, so I gave them a nice loop to give clearance getting straps through. The rear axle to frame line, I picked up a union, and a short piece of hardline to drop the frame bracket. Doing this isn't the ideal way, but the hose is long enough with the drop bracket and I retain the factory Isuzu rear line, so it's easy to replace if it starts to leak(I also a have a few extras).
Haven't started on the ebrake cables yet.

Oh! I also bought 9/16 grade8 fine thread bolts for the back when I picked up brake lines, just haven't swapped them out yet.

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Power steering lines were pretty easy. The factory Isuzu lines are the same size as the fj60 box.
That's being said I screwed in the factory trooper return, done. I tried to manipulate the trooper pressure line to bolt in and I was close! But I did end up kinking it, upon removal I also notice I hit it with a zip disc :shock: Glad I found that before I got to filling it up! Anyways I decided the best option would be to replace the pressure line with a factory unit off one of my parts troopers then take the factory fj60 line I got with the box, and add a female fitting to bolt onto the trooper line. It will be 5" total length. I'll get that done Tuesday at the same time as the front rubber brake lines.

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Last time I actually wheeled I ripped another cb antenna mount out of the roof. I was presiously running a nmo mount with a Larson antenna. I didn't want to put in another nmo so I found a Wilson stainless stud laying in my toolbox and bolted that in with a fender washer on the back side. I'll finish it off with a spring and a 36" loaded Wilson.
I usually toss my vhf on the roof with a mag mount if I'm out alone or with people that run them, thinking I'll throw an NMO a few feet back on the roof while I have the headliner opened up.

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That's all for now, Thanks!
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:56 pm

Look what I brought home!

I gave the tail shaft a spin, and it appears to be a 2.66 case. I'll be pulling the tranny this week to get started on the doubler.

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In my search I was unable to find any "good" photos of the adapter the 4l30 uses, so I took a few. Once I get everything cleaned up, if anyone wants I can take more. I plan to use the adapter to attach it. From the builds I've seen it seems to be the simplest way.

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Tranny side

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Transfercase side

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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby paulevans76 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:25 am

I was planning on chopping up the adapter to fit against the front case and getting a pro to weld it up. I like that the stock adapter has a mount built in as well. I haven't had a chance to mock mine up because I've got to grab another trans to start with.

There was a build on pirate4x4 where a guy put a 3800 in his commando with an mua5 and double cases, and the welded stock adapter was the way he went. Pics may still exist.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: The Fat Lady 88trooper SAS & dual case build

Postby younggun » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:20 pm

I do believe I've read that thread, as well as one here titled "latest Isuzu doubler" I think**
I don't have a link but I do have this photo I took a screen shot.

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I picked up the lines today.
In the photo below is the two front 24" lines, the rear union 6" line & extended drop bracket, fj60 power steering line with 19mm compression fitting to adapt to the factory Isuzu line.
I picked up some 13" travel munroes for the front, and I had some jeep jk take offs laying around that are 10" travel for the back. If you haven't caught on yet I'm cheap :lol: there's also some 1.25 sched 40 I'm going to bed up for front shock hoops. The shock mounts I made originally won't work without a fair amount of modification due to where the steering box ended up. In time I'll adapt them the rear and cut the floor up. I used the factory rear mounts on the frame with some tabs welded on the spring plates. They are angled a little more than I like but will work for now.

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Re: The Fat Lady 88trooper SAS & dual case build

Postby bradzuzu » Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:10 pm

Looking good !!

The only thing I didn't like about the factory piece is that it's really thin , time will tell though... it's obviously hard to match the dowel and bolt holes up perfectly ..
91 amigo sas toy front leaf- traded off :(
2000 amigo sas d44 wagonear 4 link
custom built buggy ffor the dirty stuff

My build up page
Four link pics
Intake R&R - port and polish

Sometimes trying is all you can do, but when you succeed , that's something to be proud of...
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Re: The Fat Lady 88trooper SAS & dual case build

Postby younggun » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:51 am

Your right brad, is it slightly thin. However it works in factory form so I'm sure with some good welding and integrating the second mount into a cross member it will hold up fine. Time will tell! I'm not exactly easy on things..

I made some progress! Got the clutch damper delete taken care of, as well all of the brake lines and power steering lines are finished! The ebrake remains unhooked, I haven't spent any time on it.
I also bent up some new shock hoops.

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Replaced the factory rear bumpstops with some other tall rubbers I pulled off a parts troop.
The fronts bumpstops I have are from the rear of a Kia sorrento. I took a piece of 2x3 sliced it in half on the 2" sides, drilled a hole in the center and welded a nut on the back side, All I have to do is weld the brackets to the front spring plates.

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My flat pitman arm also came in finally! Some cotter pins, A quick alignment and all that's buttoned up.

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Realistically at this point it was ready to take to the shop, a little bit more welding, some driveshafts and I COULD go wheeling.. but.. I want to tackle this dual case thing so I wrestled the trans out tonight, and of course Slid on the second case to see what I'm dealing with.

Adapter is on the rear case, nothing has been cut or trimmed yet. Here's those photos.

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Re: The Fat Lady 88trooper SAS & dual case build

Postby paulevans76 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Might need to weld in a drop extension for the bumpstops in the rear. Mine were nowhere close to keeping the leaves from going negative and I ended up trashing a pair of shocks (among other things) after bottoming them out a whole bunch. I got some rubber daystars and I'll be replacing the hard plastic stockers with, and also building a landing pad over the u bolt plate to keep that from happening again.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: The Fat Lady 88trooper SAS & dual case build

Postby bradzuzu » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:20 pm

So you're going to be welding to the slip yoke housing I see , I looked at that since I have one sitting around , might be easier if you can get one more auto case or a newer mua and switch it to the fixed yoke , it shortens things up a bit ...

I think the only big change would be having to lengthen the shifter housing more so it'll be up next to the other one ..

My logic of (it's only as strong as it's weakest link) comes into play when I build stuff , my big thick plate is only as strong as how it's attatched so maybe mine will fall off lol

I'm excited to see how yours turns out !!
91 amigo sas toy front leaf- traded off :(
2000 amigo sas d44 wagonear 4 link
custom built buggy ffor the dirty stuff

My build up page
Four link pics
Intake R&R - port and polish

Sometimes trying is all you can do, but when you succeed , that's something to be proud of...
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