The Fat Lady 88trooper SAS & dual case build

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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:55 pm

Thanks again for the input Paul. i will be staying small tire'd for now so the 4:56's should work. i havent yet needed more gear with the tires ive ran up to 33". want yes, need not really. in the future id like to move to a 35-36 but i'll cross that bridge when i get there.

anyways, ive made a slight amount of progress.
i pick up the diff tomorrow afternoon. today i had some time to build the hangers. i have to reinforce the front shackle mount tomorrow, and build shock towers. if im lucky i might get the front hanger welded in and start gusseting it to the frame.
the guy i am getting the diff from is a big toyota guy. Not only am i getting a diff from him but he has enough spare minitruck parts kick around to help me out with the steering as well, whether i end up keeping to stock box or not; we will see.

enjoying having the plasma back at the shop

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hangers

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cap
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rough placement
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i am trying to build the mount lower than what ive seen from most, in time when i do move up tire sizes i can SOA hopefully without ended up too high.
i havent started cutting anything off the truck yet though so dont get too excited.

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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby paulevans76 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:08 pm

Plasma, eh...spoiled :D

I like the mounts. As long as you have room for the spring eye and a little extra room for articulation movement, that's all you need. You could even "french" the fixed end mount into the frame if you want to keep it even lower.

What I did on my 1st leaf sprung SAS, in order to maximize clearance and minimize excessive height while going SOA + shackle forward, was mount my shackle hangers off the front of the frame. I set it up so that the shackles could swing back a few degrees shy of inverting, and then they would contact the frame, preventing them from ever inverting. It also put the front spring eye at ride just below the frame rail at ride height, versus hanging down 4-5" from the bottom of the frame. I was planning to eventually build a set of C-shaped shackles that would sorta wrap around the frame and the shape would also help keep from getting hung up on stuff. Similar to this: Image

Anyway, all that to say, that you definitely can keep it a respectable height SOA if you go about it with that in mind. BUT doing so for me did make the steering stuff harder to package since it pretty much had to have a high steer arm at least on the passenger side, and then the frame interference issues show up.

Keeping it SUA you can check out chuffer's build for pointers on what to do and what to avoid re: steering...

Also, I'd definitely consider swapping the yota box on, if you can make it work and fit for you...much more aftermarket out there for it if you decide to rig up hydro assist, different pitman arms to dickaround with, etc.
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby chuffer » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:49 pm

Your front mount is a little higher (what you are a calling lower...) than mine. In other words it should let you sit a little lower. I agree with Paul about frenching or at least tightening up that rear mount. I don't see a good way to do an SOA and get reasonable up-travel with a low COG on these rigs without notching the frame. Not a dig on Paul or the other SOA guys, but my SUA sits too high for my liking and it is the shape of the frame directly above the axle that is the limiting factor.

Based on your pic of the front mount it "looks" like it might set the axle too close to the firewall. I think we set my shackle hanger a little further forward than that and there is just room to clear 33s on the firewall. Hard to tell from the picture, so, you might be fine. To me that is one of the most critical measurements.

Steering is gonna be fun.

Pitman arm - the stock is a little too short for Toyota steering arms. This is the least of your worries. No other off the shelf pitman arms fit the isuzu box. So, the options are: live with a really large turning radius (this is what I chose...makes tight trails fun), make a new pitman arm or use a different box.

Steering box - you are going to need to move it forward and rotate it down or you will have tierod, draglink, axle, pitarm clearance issues of one type or another. Or get a different box...

Knuckles / steering configuration - I bought some FJ60 after market low steer arms that had enough material to get two REs mounted on the passenger side -one for the draglink and one for the tierod. This allowed me to do a crossover setup. I tried a "y-steer" setup and was very unimpressed. Also, tried to do crossover using heims and a single bolt on the stock p-side steering arm, but was worried about that single sheer bolt failing and causing me to crash into the proverbial bus full of nuns and orphans...
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby chuffer » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:13 pm

I wish I could remember the name of the vendor that I got my arms from. The were low steer arms for a FJ60 axle, but they bolt right up to the mini-truck knuckles. They were blanks so I put the Draglink hole on top of the P-side as far forward as I could and the tie-rod holes from the bottom - also as far forward as I could...

Aha. Found some info...

Link to my fred in which I flail about doing the SAS.

Pic of what I ended up with on the P-side:

Image

Source of the Steering arm was 4x4 Labs.
-Chris
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:36 am

Thanks again guys, lots of great information on those last post's!
I have been going through a few of the sas threads, mainly chuffers to see how other people set things up.
I am not going to get too excited about steering till I have the axle sitting under it on springs. I do have access to a outside frame mounted Toyota box, so I may end up going that route.

Picked up the axle Sunday, managed to get everything out but the third last night because I decided to clean all of the outer components up in the parts washer before dropping them in the sand blaster later today or tomorrow.
I have some tracks to slap on a D8H today, then pull the third out and start cleaning up the axle and build the drivers side spring perch.

Are my photos working?

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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby shaggydoink » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:15 pm

younggun wrote:Are my photos working?


You mean the ones you're including in your posts? If so, then yes... and you're doing some impressive work I might add! :thumbup:

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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:24 pm

Thanks Johnathan. I am hosting the photos in my Facebook albums so I wasn't sure if they would be viewable to others on the forums.

Got the Leaf springs built. Still need to wire wheel and paint. They are built out of trooper, and Datsun pickup rear springs. Trooper main leaf and second, and the main, with eyes cut off(I'll taper the ends when I wire wheel) and second leaf with a short overload out of the Datsun.

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4:56 third ready to go in

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But I have to clean up this oily grease mess

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Needless to say the next bit of time I have to spend in the shop will mostly consist of cleaning things up, a little fab and some paint.

I have a full seal set to pick up for the diff yet and some marlin inner axles seals. While going through the diff, I'm also doing a better brake upgrade.

Here are the new vented rotors from a fj60 vs the old solid rusty units

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And new calipers from a 93 4Runner. You can see the difference in size and larger pads and pistons.

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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:25 pm

Had a little time in the garage today, then went over to the shop.
It's a work in progress but not bad for a few hours of tinkering. Got the whole inside and outside of the diff cleaned up, 4:56 third fitted, needless brackets cut off, top truss completed, lower ball reinforcements, and pass outer stuff blasted. All that's left is to armor the front a bit, blast the drivers outer stuff, build drivers perch, and both upper ball reinforcements/shock mounts and it's time to reassemble!!

Cut the mounting flanges away from the brake covers, so I can do away with those.

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inside and outside all cleaned up.

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Blasted passenger parts. I didn't go crazy, mainly wanted to clean the mounting surfaces and knock off the loose crud.

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Drivers lower. 2"x.250 angle

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Passenger lower

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Unit as of tonight. Upper truss I built out of 2x3x.250

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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby chuffer » Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:11 am

Looking good. What tire size are you planning on running?
-Chris
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2007 Toyota Tacoma aka "Taco-kun"
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:18 pm

Currently on a 31x10.5, planning to move back to a skinny 33-34 pretty soon. Eventually I'd like to move up to a 35-39 tire.
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:17 am

Buzzed in the perches and shock mounts/upper ball braces tonight.


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Found some square stock laying around that fit in the steering stops nicely. I kept the flat side outward and filled in as much as I could.

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So as of tonight the diff is now ready for reassembly after I amour the front up tomorrow

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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby paulevans76 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:46 am

Looks nice n beefy. As long as it stayed true, it ought to easily deal with whatever abuse you can toss at it.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby leftarmtan » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:07 pm

Looks great! I have a similar set up, was able to use the stock steering box moved forward with FJ60 steering arms.Works good.
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby PPCLI-JIM » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:14 pm

hey i cant see any of your previous pics i was wondering if you could re upload the ones of your front bumper and any diagrams dimensions you have of it ?
Its a small amount of fuel , but it's a whole lot of walking..Note from my Dad
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:19 am

Thanks! I'm not sure if I am going to run factory arms or buy some others yet.
Which Tre's or Heims are most of you running with your setups?

Finished the diff armour today. It is now 100% ready to be put back together.

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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:27 am

PPCLI-JIM wrote:hey i cant see any of your previous pics i was wondering if you could re upload the ones of your front bumper and any diagrams dimensions you have of it ?



Unfortunately I don't have any measurements for it as I built it years ago. I went from the frame horns and trimmed as high as I could upwards at an angle. I did trim the rad support a little as well.
It's built out of 2x4 1/4" rectangle and some 3/16 plate.

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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:42 pm

Brought the diff home today, had a chance to stuff the third in and pop in the axle shafts. Good news is they went into the balls nice and easy so I guess I didn't warp it!!

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Also hung it on the springs off the Bench for shits and giggles. Cut the top ubolt plates today, need to get some ubolts, clamp the springs, trim and brace the shackles.

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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby paulevans76 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:54 pm

Sweet.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:05 pm

Well unfortunately I don't have much for updates. Haven't had a chance to get the seal kit picked up yet, so the diff is still unassembled. However, all of the cutting grinding, welding, wire wheeling to be done off the truck is done. Got the leaf springs all cleaned up and painted aswell, picked up some ubolts too. If I have some time in the shop I'll grab some photos of the shock mounts and lower spring plates I built.

As for steering, I think I am going to end up going with a outside frame mounted Toyota box, hipster arms an FJ80 ends.

I found some stock jeep JK shocks laying under the bench from a lift kit I installed a few months ago, they have around 8" of travel so I will most likely run those for now till I decided to buy new
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby bradzuzu » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:05 am

Awesome to see new progress !!

I wish I had pictures of the setup on my first amigo , it did sit up pretty high though ... Paul and Chris are doing there jobs well :)

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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:32 am

Ok I have some photos for you guys! My apologies for the delay.

I moved my perches around a little, trimmed the rear ones up and was happy with how everything looked. My springs did flatten out quite a bit more than expected, leaving me less room between the springs and frame than I was hoping for. I figured without a lot of frame notching it would be tough to make work so I mounted it up spring over. I may reverse the spring eyes to come down a bit more yet.
I had ubolts bent planning to SUA, I used them for mounting SOA but wrapped them around the lower perches instead of the axle. I am undecided if I should notch the lower for the ubolt to sit into, or box the upper and lower perches together and leave a little hanging off each side to "trap" the bolts from sliding off.. or just getting new ubolts. Thoughts?

Currently the perches are drilled 1.5 back to move the axle ahead and I am sitting 7" farher ahead than factory.
My lifted ifs was sitting at 23" center hub to fender lip if I remember correctly and my previous 33s rubbed. SOA center axle to fender lip I am at 29"(6" over previous) with around 7" of space between frame and springs. If I reverse the eyes it should bring me down 1-2", still undecided.

I am thinking about picking up a set of 35x10r15 TSL SXII's for the snowflakes I scored awhile back.

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I will be picking up some parts from my buddy by Sunday. Him and I have both been busy. I am picking up a Toyota steering box, marlin hysteer arms, fj80 TRE's, some DOM for steering links and a knuckle seal kit.
My next bit of time I get in the shop will be spent cleaning up the frame, reinforcing the front mount, making some spring clamps, cutting off the steering stabilizer mount and getting the axle back together.
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby chuffer » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:24 am

Flex looks good.

With the axle that far forward (even if you flip the springs to move it back 2") I guess you are gonna trim a lot out of the front. In that case, you might as well go with something bigger like 37s!
-Chris
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1988 Isuzu Trooper 2.6l 5-spd aka "Stinky"
2007 Toyota Tacoma aka "Taco-kun"
1986 Ford F250 aka "Mr. Green Jeans"
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:35 pm

There will need to be some trimming of the bumper and fender once I get tires back on it.

I'd love to pick up a set of 37s but until I swap the rear axle and gears ill stay with smaller tires.
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby paulevans76 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:16 pm

The sx2's are sweet. The 40s appear to be measuring a little small from a few pics available on pirate4x4, not sure on the 35s or 37s tho.

I'd either take the hit and get new ubolts or run the square ones with the nuts down to a u bolt plate. There are ways to maintain some clearance with them pointed, just takes some ingenuity. Maybe you could weld recessed u bolt mounting points to the bottom perch. You could notch the perch to help with the current setup but I don't know if I'd be comfortable running them like that.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: The Fat Lady 1988 Trooper build

Postby younggun » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:26 pm

I think I may do away with ubolts completely and build a "ubolt delete" style clamp.

Managed to get the frame cleaned up today, and got the front mount reinforced. The body mounts are trimmed for now, as once I get the steering box mounted I'll plate the frame and bring it ahead enough to tie into the plating I did today.

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Axle is on jack stands to mimic being mounted to the 31" rollers I have, full weight on springs. I think 35s should be a nice fit for now. If I need I can move the axle back 1.5" on the perch or as Chuffer mentioned I could flip the springs. I am hoping to keep it as forward as I can.

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