Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mods

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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:01 am

chuffer wrote:Fookin Awesome.

Who is behind the wheel?


I believe that's my 5 year old, Ben. Likely also the one who thought the cig lighter would be a good spot for a bolt to hide :D glad it didn't make contact with the 'hot' or I'd have other issues to deal with!

hessmess wrote:Looking good out in the sunshine, I had forgotten about the SAS. Glad it is almost there.


Me too!

bradzuzu wrote:I forgot high high it sat , kinda helps me think and decide on mine !!

Looks almost ready , keep at it buddy !!


Too tall. Was really hoping to get to the BL reduction, but that's a couple weeks of extra tinkering that I can't afford right now. Soon though! But really that's the only wiggle room I have in the height department without changing 200 things in the steering/suspension.

Gonna bleed the clutch and hope that I didn't screw any of the TO bearing/shift fork/etc stuff up. Then pop on the shift boots and go for a spin.
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:33 pm

The Ever Growing Ever Loving List
  • Oil in case
  • install shifters
  • connect speedo cable
  • torque tcase output nuts
  • install exhaust
  • Grill stuff
  • fuel filter
  • install driveshafts
  • Reinstall the distributor
  • Set timing
  • Break in cam
  • Grease RCV's
  • Check wheel bearings
  • Install rear bumpstops
  • Bleed clutch
  • Bleed power steering
  • Break in engine (Drive 500 miles) - workin' on it
  • Change oil
  • Pack campin/wheelin stuff
  • Drive to Uwharrie
  • Go 4-Wheelin'

Got the shift boots on, hood on, timing set (for now), took it for a spin. Power is better for sure. So many exhaust leaks haha :blackeye:

The throttle is a bit sticky initially easing into it, so it's a little jerky taking off, backing up, and getting back on the gas.

Also, getting into reverse is a bit grindy, sorta like before, but now I can feel it actually straining the engine a bit in gear - like if I put it in reverse and leave the clutch in with no throttle, it will try to die on me. So I gotta figure out how to get the clutch to totally disengage somehow. It engages just off the floor, and seems like if I could push it down another inch, it would be better. Any suggestions? I don't remember this being a new clutch issue.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:24 pm

Took it out for some moderate and hard'ish throttle runs and just to put some miles on it. Shifting is improving somewhat, but the throttle is still a pain and the idle is unreliable. It will idle too low and die, and then be a royal pain to get started again. Would not be good on the trails as is.

Also running mighty rich and/or oily. The billion exhaust leaks are probably not helping with that - could be fooling the O2 sensor by pulling fresher air through the leaks. But I think there's also some blow-by or a lot of crud burning off. Gonna change the oil, see what it looks like, and keep on with it. Not gonna make it to Uwharrie tomorrow, but depending on how things go, maybe Saturday. Fingers crossed.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
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Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby chuffer » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:44 pm

As much as you want to wheel it, it sounds like it will drive you nuts on the trail. Get it running right first...then hammer on it!
-Chris
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Mon May 01, 2017 9:16 am

Worried about the rings now. May have been a botched install during the rebuild, or the fact that it was sitting after the rebuild for years, or maybe all the cranking and the cam break-in might have been responsible, but I'm getting a lot of blow-by. I'm going to only drive it cold, mod throttle runs 2k to 4k and back down in gear, and get it home before it reaches operating temp. Do that a few times a day for a while and see if that helps. Can't catch a break on this one.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby hessmess » Mon May 01, 2017 10:01 am

Oh man! I really hope that this resolves itself. Getting those rings broke in. I had an engine that sat for several years between rebuild and install with no problems. Right now I have a 3.1 in the garage that I rebuilt with a buddy and I never could get it to run right. My problem was the intake. Once I got that figured out, it started loosing oil pressure, tracked that down to a main bearing. I pulled it and it sits in the garage until I come up with the funds for a new crank kit. Engine doesn't even have 10K on it. I am kinda thinking if I stumble across another 91 with all the bells and whistles and no rust. Ah heck who knows!
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby btw1549 » Mon May 01, 2017 2:05 pm

paulevans76 wrote:Worried about the rings now. May have been a botched install during the rebuild, or the fact that it was sitting after the rebuild for years, or maybe all the cranking and the cam break-in might have been responsible, but I'm getting a lot of blow-by. I'm going to only drive it cold, mod throttle runs 2k to 4k and back down in gear, and get it home before it reaches operating temp. Do that a few times a day for a while and see if that helps. Can't catch a break on this one.


Just curious, did you check the compression? Unless it was opened up and stored in a super damp environment I can't see the sitting causing a problem. Before I put my 3.4 in it sat in our garage for almost 15 years. Granted it was on a crate wrapped in plastic.
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Tue May 02, 2017 9:42 am

I never did check it. The power is great, it doesn't seem like a lack of compression is affecting performance, but once it gets to operating temp and the oil thins out, there's a significant amount of blue smoke. And also at operating temp, I'm also getting some chatter that may be valve train, may be something worse, but I don't want to entertain the idea at this point :blackeye: Oil pressure is pretty normal when cold and drops a bit when warm.
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Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby bradzuzu » Tue May 02, 2017 11:23 am

Did the engine get chrome rings or standard cast iron ones ? If there's and paper work remaining could check part numbers..
Also if by chance the valve guides are loose that will cause blow by and smoke especially if the valve stem seals are messed up...

Let's hope not :(
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Tue May 02, 2017 1:42 pm

There's a lot of smoke coming through the valve cover vent hose that goes into the air cleaner on the side opposite of the PCV. I'll check the parts list on the rings. There were extra heads included with the engine as well as extra rings. But the previous owner of the engine didn't say anything about the assembled engine needing anything done aside from heli-coiling the exhaust stud/bolt holes in the heads.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Tue May 02, 2017 3:15 pm

The rings the PO mentioned in his build thread were these, I believe https://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-e928k but I need to go find the ones that came in the box o' parts to see if they are a different PN or if there's any indication that he went with a different set.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Tue May 09, 2017 9:08 am

Man, I can't tell you how nice it is to have a brother who has been a mechanic for going on 20 years. Situation may not be too dire; sky may not be falling. I am a shadetree hack and everytime I have him check something out, he'll notice something I couldn't possibly have in 100 years.

So it turns out, some genius set the timing too high, so what I thought might be something worse is just spark knock. I thought I had it around 13* or so, roughly where I had the ol' 2.8. I'm going to try to find a distributor wrench (because I'm tired of messin' with the thing for so long just to loosen/tighten the hold down) and try retarding it down to ~8* or so and see how that feels. Also my bro thinks that the rings may be getting washed out, tied in to all that. Also going to grab a TBI rebuild kit and a new IAC thingy and maybe grab some parts to make the fuel pressure adjustable. If those things don't take care of stuff, well, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby hessmess » Tue May 09, 2017 10:57 am

I think on mine the timing is at 12 and the fuel pressure is set at 13psi. Seems to run good. I live at 5000' altitude. When I make a run down the freeway at 75 MPH for a few hours I get right at 20 MPG. My engine is completely stock (3.4) except for the oversized intake and exhaust.
86 Trooper (sold to brother) wrecked and recycled
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91 Trooper, 3.1, bored .40, Cam, 4.3 TBI, roller rockers, Fiero valve covers, remote oil filter, LSD, 2.25 Cat back exhaust, BJ flip, 5 speed conversion, Round eye conversion-retired and parts donated to the new 91
91 LS Trooper, 5 speed, 3.4, bored intake, LSD, rebuilt using parts donated from the first 91
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby bradzuzu » Tue May 09, 2017 6:47 pm

Careful running the timing to low you can overheat the valves ... Thus engines cammed right , theoretically you could run more timing but if it's having trouble then you could retard it down some , maybe to 10* or so...

I hope you get it resolved !!
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Wed May 10, 2017 9:38 am

bradzuzu wrote:Careful running the timing to low you can overheat the valves ... Thus engines cammed right , theoretically you could run more timing but if it's having trouble then you could retard it down some , maybe to 10* or so...

I hope you get it resolved !!


Yeah I'm going to drop it a little at a time, leave the diz hold down snug but not torqued, take it for a spin, see how it does. I want to leave it as high as possible, but with the pinging and hard starting it's def a few * high. I've got the diz wrench on the way. Busy for the next few days and then I'll get it knocked out early next week.

Found one of the Holley throttle bodies that were made for the 2.8/3.1/3.4, new old stock. I'm leaning hard toward picking it up - hopefully it's still available next week or so... need to spread out the spending to keep the Mrs. happy :) But it's got all the stuff I'm looking for - adjustable fuel pressure, new IAC, etc, ready to drop in. Gotta pay the lazy tax but it's still half the price of what a new 670cfm version costs.
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Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby btw1549 » Wed May 10, 2017 4:55 pm

How old is your fuel and what grade was it? I had premium in mine but it was like a year old and was an ethanol blend. That crap even with stabile in it just degrades so fast.

I ask because after I got mine back together and set the timing to 13* it also knocked real bad. Went and filled up with a fresh tank of ethanol free fuel and it cleared up almost instantly.
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Thu May 11, 2017 2:02 pm

Good call. The stuff in there was sorta old (9 months?) 87 regular, ethanol'y stuff. I put in some 92 when we took it out last. I'll fill'er up with ethanol free on the next tank. Diz wrench should show up today, and the tinkering can recommence.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Tue May 16, 2017 9:38 am

Timing was way high. It must have slipped or got bumped or something. Brought it down to roughly 10* and no pingin'. Idle still sucks, lots of smoke coming through the valve cover tube into the air cleaner, exhaust still oil smokey, but I didn't take it out for long. Might get a breather cap for the valve cover until I can get see if the timing change eliminates the hypothesized cylinder wash out and actually seat the rings. Grabbed a new multimeter and I'll test/adjust the TPS as needed, hopefully smoothing it out enough until I can grab that Holley.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Wed May 17, 2017 5:45 pm

Frickin' heckin' frackin' fudge. TPS adjustment procedure went... not great. Supposed to read .45-.55, mine was .79ish and it one of the non-adjustable types, or not enough adjustment available, so that's really uncool. So I reckon I'll just need to go ahead and get that Holley sooner rather than later.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby btw1549 » Thu May 18, 2017 10:38 am

Yeah, the 4.3 TPS is not adjustable, however if you remove it just drill out one of the holes a little bigger or file it into a slotted hole and you can adjust it. That's what I had to do.

How does it idle once it is warmed up?
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2002 Isuzu Axiom In Progress, Complete Drivetrain Rebuild with Suspension Refresh/Lift
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Thu May 18, 2017 11:49 am

Smart...I'll give that a whirl. It idles pretty low when warm. Like 500 rpm.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby btw1549 » Fri May 19, 2017 7:35 pm

Ah, I'm idling right around 600 to 700 at 180* (My thermostat is a 180*). Every once in a while though it idles at like 1500 and I shut it off, start it back up and it's fine. I haven't put the 3.4 knock sensor in yet but will be when I get the new AC compressor in next week so I'm hoping that is the fix.
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Sat May 20, 2017 4:28 pm

Dudes! Opened up the holes on the tps and got it to .56 volts or ohms or gigawatts or whatever, close as it's gonna get, and holy crap. Idles at 750, around 1000 warm, and almost no smoke when on the throttle!! I think i can prob fine tune fuel pressure, swap the throttle arm off the 2.8 tbi to smooth throttle out, do the ed mc special on the exhaust, and that's all she wrote. Maybe advance timing a little. But wow, we are getting close!
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby hessmess » Sat May 20, 2017 6:15 pm

Good deal, are you liking the power improvement?
86 Trooper (sold to brother) wrecked and recycled
88 Trooper (recycled)
91 Trooper, 3.1, bored .40, Cam, 4.3 TBI, roller rockers, Fiero valve covers, remote oil filter, LSD, 2.25 Cat back exhaust, BJ flip, 5 speed conversion, Round eye conversion-retired and parts donated to the new 91
91 LS Trooper, 5 speed, 3.4, bored intake, LSD, rebuilt using parts donated from the first 91
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=81567
89 Pup LS Space Cab, 4X4, AMC head, Delta 260 cam, 2.25 cat back exhaust system, LSD
viewtopic.php?t=55081
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Re: Coil/Radius arm SAS 1st gen Trooper - fine tuning/new mo

Postby paulevans76 » Sat May 20, 2017 7:29 pm

It is noticeable. I think when I get it breathing better and dialed in, it will be great. I'd put it up there with a healthy stock trooper on stock size tires, which ain't too shabby considering the additional mass and rolling resistance.
91 SAS Trooper - Neverending tinkering
Semi-hopped-up 3.4 + MUA5 + 3.07:1 low
Waggy D44 Front - 5.38's + RCV's + OX
Rodeo D44 Rear - 5.38's + Detroit
35" General Grabber X3's on Interco Birddogs
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