Lest we forget...

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Lest we forget...

Postby DSUZU » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:07 pm

Today marks the 75th anniversary of the Japanese attack on the US bases at Pearl Harbor and other Oahu bases. Fewer actual survivors remain each year and each passing year, what is taught about it becomes more vague and even politically tainted. This afternoon I happened to hear a talk radio person say they would be discussing it, and that he had some knowledge about the event. They began talking and then he mentioned "these, these (why do these idiots always seem to stutter?) suicide bombers attacked our bases". At that point I came unglued. He doesn't know squat about it. We should alway remember the HELL that our people went through because "WE" were unprepared, or apathetic about the abilities of our adversary. REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR. (And Wheeler Field, Ewa Field-USMC, Bellows Field, Schofield Barracks, Hickam Field, Kaneohe NAS.) Make suure the next generation knows what it means. Dennis
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Re: Lest we forget...

Postby itsmehb » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:43 pm

Dennis,
Thank you for this post. Earlier in the day I was thinking of posting something similar but procrastinated. I do that well sometimes. I was only 5 years old in 41 but old enough to remember the end of the war. Yes, we were ill prepared in 41, but as Yamamoto said, "we've awakened a sleeping giant". Thank god for all our boys who fought and died for what we have today. We should be forever thankful for there sacrifice and above all, never forget. I've visited both the Arizona memorial and the ground zero memorial in New York. They are both a very moving experience.
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Re: Lest we forget...

Postby N law » Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:07 am

I spent a good portion of yesterday reading the stories of the ships and what their fates were. The big one was the Arizona. Oklahoma was successfully refloated and sold for scrap, but sank on the way to scrap. Utah is still sitting there, but doesn't seem to get the attention that Arizona gets. It was an amazing read from the folks there about who did what. People who died keeping the systems running so others could escape. Civilians who organized rescue efforts. The USS Neveda was switching boilers and, thus, had two running. When the attack started, they went underway, but were a key target because the Japanese wanted to sink a ship in the entrance to the harbor. Ships were in for refitment, so various parts were not on hand or batteries were empty. One ship I read about got a direct hit to the battery, but they had put off reloading it with larger powder charges until the 7th! The one crazy thing I read was they they typically had two groups that spent alternating weeks out at sea so that the whole fleet wasn't in harbor at once. This particular weekend, both groups were in port, making it a terribly scenario.
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Re: Lest we forget...

Postby gwana66 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:34 pm

I'd be surprised if they taught much about WWII in modern history classes - so much of it is 'insensitive'. I graduated high school in '84, and we barely glazed over it. There was no mention at all of Vietnam, and that was still fresh at the time. I'm shocked how many kids have no idea what 9/11 represents.
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Re: Lest we forget...

Postby itsmehb » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:15 pm

N law wrote:I spent a good portion of yesterday reading the stories of the ships and what their fates were. The big one was the Arizona. Oklahoma was successfully refloated and sold for scrap, but sank on the way to scrap. Utah is still sitting there, but doesn't seem to get the attention that Arizona gets. It was an amazing read from the folks there about who did what. People who died keeping the systems running so others could escape. Civilians who organized rescue efforts. The USS Neveda was switching boilers and, thus, had two running. When the attack started, they went underway, but were a key target because the Japanese wanted to sink a ship in the entrance to the harbor. Ships were in for refitment, so various parts were not on hand or batteries were empty. One ship I read about got a direct hit to the battery, but they had put off reloading it with larger powder charges until the 7th! The one crazy thing I read was they they typically had two groups that spent alternating weeks out at sea so that the whole fleet wasn't in harbor at once. This particular weekend, both groups were in port, making it a terribly scenario.


All true, and if the carriers had been in port also, there would have been no battle of midway, and we might be speaking Japanese, so as Earnest K Gann wrote "Fate is the Hunter".
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Re: Lest we forget...

Postby N law » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:27 pm

Yeah, we dodge a bullet with not having our carriers in port. I've heard conspiracy theories about them being away because the attack was known about. From what I have gathered, the Lexington was too far away. The Saratoga was in California. Enterprise was supposed to be at Pearl Harbor, but was delayed by wind, but was close enough to send air support. Apparently, Enterprise was on track to enter the harbor 30 minutes before the attack and head to where Utah is, but the wind delayed the Utah's departure. It would have been really bad if the Enterprise got disabled in the channel!
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Re: Lest we forget...

Postby Ed Mc. » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:55 pm

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Re: Lest we forget...

Postby DSUZU » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:45 pm

I don't buy any of the conspiracy theory about Carriers being out because they suspected or knew the attack was coming. Prior to Dec 7th, we still didn't respect air power. Sadly, 1 week before the attack, a military magazine featured a picture of the Arizona with a caption that read "Despite the claims of air enthusiasts, no battleship has yet been sunk by bombs". The old school Navy still valued the battleship over carriers.
I do lean toward "THEM" having suspicions or knowledge of a pending attack and figuring "the little yellow people won't do any REAL damage and it will give us a reason". If that was actually the case, our OWN prejudice cost us. Sadly, 911 showed us that we really didn't learn the lesson. I always thought a picture of the burning Arizona transposed over the burning Twin Towers would be a lasting reminder.
Many heros made both days. Dennis
1991 LS Trooper 2.8 V6 5 speed conversion (Sold)
1989 LS Spacecab 2.6 5 speed 4x4 manual hubs, Rodeo torsion bars, extended shackles, 2" lift, K&N airfilter (drop in), dump bed conversion, burgundy interior change, warn brush bar.
Previously owned: 1987 Trooper II LS, 1989 Trooper (parts only), 1994 Trooper 3.2 Auto, 1997 Rodeo 2.6 5 speed, 1993 shortbed pickup 2.3 (project - sold) 1992 Rodeo 4x4 LS (parts car, devoured by Spacecab needs) plus some 70 plus other non Isuzu vehicles over the years.

http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=64060

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Re: Lest we forget...

Postby MarkB.NV » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:04 am

Both sides have their share of fault in screwed up international strategy and failed diplomacy with other nations.

Tribal thinking in the industrial age leads to catastrophes of epic proportions -next thing you know you're in an international war, then somebody gets nuked. Countless millions made to suffer for the stupidity and selfishness of a few. I make no apologies for the US dropping nuclear weapons on essentially civilian targets. Ask the survivors of Nanking or Bataan if they approve of the nuclear solution.

My old man served in the USMC, Fighting 4th, having signed up in '42. By August of '45 had already seen four beach-heads and was prepping for the great invasion of the Japanese homeland. As horrible as Hiroshima and Nagasaki were, I'm convinced it was the most direct path to the end of that great calamity. It also helped ensure that my old man survived the war, and I am grateful to be here. US tactics still reflect a similar approach, never send a man/woman when a bullet will do.

Japan's atrocities across the whole of south Asia area are up there with the worst of Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia and the Khmere Rouge. As Americans we have our own dirty laundry and bloody hands, though not quite the scale.

Constant vigilance and a willingness to rain fire on your enemies. Also helps to read all of their traffic.
Thanks for the reminder, Dennis.
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Re: Lest we forget...

Postby PPCLI-JIM » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:48 pm

I never forget , thats me with the green beret
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