Solved: Speedometer Saga

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Solved: Speedometer Saga

Postby Volume311 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:00 pm

2001 Rodeo Sport 3.2 Auto 4L30E

Lost the Speedo/Odometer/Cruise Control couple years back. It shifts fine, not a TSS issue. Finally getting around to trouble shooting everything. I pulled the old VSS on the rear passenger side, it had some fluid in it (probably the rear seal leak?) and replaced it with a new one (they are significantly cheaper online than autozone $10 vs $200). New sensor didn't fix the issue. I read through most of the old threads and Buster seems to have a good handle on this. Measured the voltage across the 3 pins On the harness and it read in this configuration. If anyone has any further input, it would be greatly appreciated!

Pin 1 to 2 12.7V
Pin 3 to 2 10.7V

Red + Black -
image.jpg
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Last edited by Volume311 on Thu May 11, 2017 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby Buster28 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:53 pm

Check the voltage at Pin 13 Black/Yellow of the H-4 body connector.
Click on schematic to expand.
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby Volume311 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:29 pm

Thanks for the response! Ok, got that apart. I checked both sides Male/Female. Could not locate a Black/Yellow wire. As per instructions, the 13 pin location, is it correct to assume it is as labeled in photo one? If the location is correct, it's a black wire that plugs in. Just for clarity, when I am testing the voltage, is it from the female pin to a ground, or across to the matching male pin on the ECU plug side? The second photo is the male side of the connection with the harness peeled back a little to show all the wires.
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby Volume311 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:30 pm

2nd photo. Peeled back the electrical tape...its kinda of a gooey mess inthere.
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby Volume311 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:12 pm

Checked it plug to plug and plug to ground. Reading 0v
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby Buster28 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:35 am

There may be a difference between 03 Rodeo and Rodeo Sport wiring.
Are there 4 connectors on the inner fender as shown in the image?
Does your 03 Rodeo Sport have a GM 4L30e or a Aisin AW30-40LS transmission?
Does your 03 Rodeo Sport have an Immoblizer Module installed that uses the Transponder Chip Ignition Key?
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby Volume311 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:38 am

Yea it's a 4L30E. No immobilizer and basic keys from the get go. Owned it since new. One curious thing about the manufacturing date. The inside drivers door sticker Nov.00 Wonder if it's an "old" amigo that got the 03 updates and sold as such?
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby Buster28 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:31 am

This should be the correct schematic for your truck. The output from the VSS goes through Pin-10 of the H-5 Body connector as opposed to the 03 schematic H-4 connector. Inoperative Cruise Control indicates the VSS output signal on Pin 3 of the VSS is not getting to the PCM. Check the wiring to/from the H-5 connector Pin-10. The H-5 Connector pin configuration is identical to H-4.
Click on schematic to expand.
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby Volume311 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:42 pm

Ok Checked H-5. Couldn't id 10 but the black/yellow was evident. It appears to be in an 11 spot. Jumping from the pin to a ground it reads 3.2v. Wires look ok on the connections.

Also, total brain fart. This thing is a 2001. Guess it's been that long.
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby Buster28 » Mon May 01, 2017 9:55 am

Is the CEL illuminated and is DTC P0502 (No VSS Signal) set?
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby Volume311 » Mon May 01, 2017 11:50 am

That's correct.
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby Buster28 » Mon May 01, 2017 5:39 pm

DTC P0502 confirms that the VSS signal is not received at the PCM. A reading of 10.7 Vdc on the VSS connector Pin 3 with it disconnected from the VSS suggests that there is a pull-up circuit in the PCM that is pulling the VSS signal input up to 10 Vdc (more or less) through a pull-up resistor and that the VSS actually pulls the line down down to ground so the net result is a string of +10 (more or less) pulses that the PCM and Speedo translate into speed. It appears that the problem is in the VSS. Are you sure the transmission is actually turning the mechanical part of the VSS?
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby Volume311 » Mon May 01, 2017 7:04 pm

Hmm, I was under the impression that it was a Hall Effect sensor like the one on drivers side. Based on your diagnosis, I believe I was incorrect to assume that. Is the VSS gear driven like the the sample photo below? If so, I'll be taking that apart tomorrow. (Random Google image search result)
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby Buster28 » Mon May 01, 2017 8:26 pm

Your image is similar to the actual.
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby Buster28 » Tue May 02, 2017 5:50 am

If just found this schematic, note the pull-up resistor connected to the PCM VSS signal input.
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby diychw » Tue May 02, 2017 11:30 pm

I just tested my 2002 rodeo 4L30e tranmission speed sensor using this post and I have continuity with ground and 12.55 v power and signal voltage 10.1 v. Is the 10.1 voltage too high?

other than that I know my odometer and speedometer not working is now the tranmission speed sensor so I will pull it in the daylight and see if the gears are the problem or the sensor just not functioning. I have already ordered one earlier today so I am going to be able to swap it out.

Thanks Buster28 for the above information to help me test mine and for directing me to this post and the other for my solenoid b stuck open I really appreciate it.
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby diychw » Tue May 02, 2017 11:32 pm

Sorry I meant vss not tss on the above post.
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby Volume311 » Wed May 03, 2017 1:16 pm

Got the VSS off, and with one drive wheel in the air spun the shaft. No movement on the VSS gear drive shaft. I pulled the gear drive sensor and the teeth look a bit flat. The transmission internal worm gear is still intact and the teeth are smooth/sharp and still rotate with the drive shaft. So the culprit all along was the speedometer drive gear. 19 Plastic teeth on a shaft just a nick over 66mm long. The shaft with the gear is easily replaceable. I've tried to locate one online but its been elusive. Trying to cross reference with just a 4l30E across the board. Buster, do you have a part number that I would be able to start off with? The attached photo is for reference of all parts involved. I've got a feeling it will be useful for others down the line.
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby Volume311 » Wed May 03, 2017 4:17 pm

After some more digging, I believe I located the correct part. 1998 Honda Passports came with a 19-Tooth variant. Will double check the number of teeth on my gear before ordering.

http://www.hondapartsoverstock.com/p/Ho ... origin=pla
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby diychw » Mon May 08, 2017 6:11 pm

I have been following this thread closely as I came up with the exact same issue as Volume311. I am glad Buster28 sent me here. I too have tested in the same sequence and even bought a new VSS but before installing used a drill attached to the VSS, with the old VSS out of the transmission carrier and plugged into the molex plug with car engine off but the ignition switch on and tested my theory before removing the nylon gear carrier to the Tail section of the transmission. It worked perfectly with the drill spinning at varied rates and both the odometer and speedometer functioned. So I too removed the gear driven section and mine looked like all the teeth were shaved at an angle and the center of each was convex. I also noted the last guy to place the M6 x 1.0 bolt stripped it and glued it in and this is most likely what allowed enough play to cause this to fail, the friend I bought this from said it went out a month after the last transmission rebuild. Thanks Volume311 for the part information, but I counted the threads of mine and verified there are 20 teeth on my gear other than that it looked identical to your three images posted above. Did you find the same or was yours 19 teeth? If so I will let you know when I find one with the 20 teeth or Buster28 may know where to obtain. I did not mean to hijack your thread but this was just perfect timing for me Thanks so much for the details above.
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby Volume311 » Mon May 08, 2017 7:01 pm

Hey, mine was 19. The link above "honda parts overstock" was sold out on it so I ordered it from Hondapartsnow.com
I also did the drill trick, recorded it on my phone to verify, cant see that cluster from under the car and the speedo lit up.
Mine is in the mail hopefully. Good luck!

The 20 tooth variant part number is "8-97135-938-0"

This is the part number you're looking for
http://parts.sonshonda.com/products/gb/Honda/Passport/GEAR--DRIVEN-SPEED-T=20/1667886/8-97135-938-0.html?partner=googlebase_adwords&kwd=&origin=pla

Heres a list of all shopping results on google for that part number
List of all shopping results
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Re: Speedometer Saga

Postby diychw » Tue May 09, 2017 11:34 pm

Thanks Volume311 I bought my T20 at a Honda Dealership today and put it in after work and now I have Speedometer and Odometer Working again. Thanks for the Link, My Driven gear was worn so much that it had lost 1/3 the diameter. That part number was correct it is the Isuzu number on the package, the GM number on the same package is GM#97135938 Labeled Gear; Driven,SPD and was sold to this dealership from Jason's Automotive if anyone else needs this part. It seems to be rare as this was the last one in the Atlanta area according to The Honda Dealerships I called today. I found several others but they were about the same or more $ then shipping and would have had to wait so I drove an 45min to get it.
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Re: Solved: Speedometer Saga

Postby Volume311 » Thu May 11, 2017 2:24 pm

Go mine in the mail couple of days ago, in it went today and the speedo is back alive. Thanks for all your help Buster, hopefully this thread will be helpful to others down the line!
As a parting shot, here is a side by side of the old vs new speedo gear
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Re: Solved: Speedometer Saga

Postby Dmart » Mon May 22, 2017 12:11 am

Is the CSS number of teeth the same on a 2000 rodeo and where exactly is it located. Can't pass inspection because it's throwing a code.
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Re: Solved: Speedometer Saga

Postby Dmart » Mon May 22, 2017 12:24 am

Typo, VSS
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