Isuzu SUV Forum banner

CO2 tank Howto

51K views 41 replies 17 participants last post by  BigSwede 
#1 ·
Several people commented this past weekend on my CO2 setup, so I thought that I'd post a little information about it.

I have a 20lb CO2 tank.

It lasts me approx 6 months (I don't have an air compressor in my garage, so it's my source of air for tools, airing up, using the nail gun, etc). I know that that is a horrible way to tell you how long it lasts, but it's the truth. According to the chart on Powertank.com I should be able to air up 52 33x12.50 tires from 15 to 30psi, or 90 30x9.50 tires (what many Isuzus come with stock), or run an impact wrench for 11.6 minutes. They claim that is 400 lugnuts. I suspect that is an underestimation. They only claim that I'd get 11.6 minutes out of an air cut off wheel, but I spent 15+ minutes cutting some springs out of a jeep in the junkyard one day, and I didn't start with a full tank.

I have a Cornelius brand beverage regulator, with the 0-160psi output (in reality, I can't seem to make mine go to above about 145). It has a standard 1/4" NPT output, so a normal Lowes quick disconnect will thread right in. These show up on E-Bay for about $45, sometimes new for that price.

They look like this:


I have a 1/4" polyurethane hose from www.beavertools.com - $14 and the part number is BA-1202. DO NOT USE THE CHEAP YELLOW PLASTIC HOSES. They don't flow very well at all, and are a safety hazard with CO2 (more on that later).

I have quick disconnect fittings from Home Depot. I started out with their Orange set (not Yellow, which is a different standard). They now sell a much better design, which doesn't require you to pull back on the outer sleeve to connect a tool. You can easily notice it in the store because the sleeve looks like it is stuck half way. These are wonderful, and Lowes doesn't carry them yet. They are compatible with the Orange (and I'm told Yellow) standard quick-connects, so you can upgrade or mix as you see fit.

I carry an impact wrench with 17mm and 19mm sockets (I actually found a single socket that flips that has 17mm on one end and 19mm on the other end). I also carry an air chuck, tractor trailer sized since it is much easier to hold. When I'm offroading, I carry my 3" cut off wheel. The air ratchet uses a ton of air (co2) and I have yet to find a place where it would fit that I couldn't use my hand held ratchet.

The tank sits on the floor, and is strapped both down and to the side of the truck.

I don't have any great pics of it, but you can see it in the back corner (mostly covered by the air mattress) here:
http://tad.luddite.net/gallery/94TrooperMods/IMG_3926

The technical:
CO2 is stored in a liquid in the tank. 20lbs of liquid CO2. The gas at the top is obviously not liquid, and this is what you are using. As you draw gas out, the pressure in the bottle drops, and more liquid CO2 evaporates. The gas (and liquid) in the tank sits at 800psi. Compare this to a Nitrogen tank at about 2500psi, and 3000-4000 in a scuba tank. (For reference, a scuba tank contains about the same amount of energy as two hand grenades). Because CO2 only releases its energy as the liquid evaporates, the large amount of energy isn't stored in a "bomb" format. It would still be bad to have a tank cook off, and care should be taken around the tank (keep your axe swinging well clear of the tank, and secure the tank very well).

CO2 tanks also have ceramic disk pressure relief valves. These have a ceramic disk that breaks if the pressure in the tank gets too high. The co2 is then vented to outside the tank. One Planetisuzoo member had one of his tanks overfilled. On the way back to his house the ceramic disk burt. This caused a loud hissing noise, and a cloud formed in his truck. He rolled down the window, and put up with the noise until the tank was empty, then turned around and paid a visit to the place where he had it refilled.

Now, for the bad:
Once you are out of CO2, you are out. It costs $14 to fill a tank. CO2 gets cold when it decompresses. Real cold. If it is at all humid my regulator will become covered in ice (it still functions just fine). Your hose will become stiff. If you use a rubber hose, it can become like copper pipe it will get so cold. The cheap yellow plastic hoses can shatter once they are that cold. The poly hoses aren't expensive, and they will stay flexible when cold.

You can't use the tank for terribly long when the outside air temperature is below freezing. The liquid CO2 in the tank has to evaporate in order to be useful. At those temps, the evaporation doesn't happen very fast. We tried to use mine in a junkyard in January, and only got 5-10mins of use out of it until it just wasn't evaporating in the tank anymore.

The tank isn't light. My "20lb" tank weighs 40lbs full. If I get a steel "20lb" tank, it weighs 60lbs full. The "20lb" rating is how much co2 it will hold.

Any questions?

-Tad
 
See less See more
1
#2 ·
Tad,

I could run a variation of your setup, except using a scuba tank. They make them in 4500psi versions now. Find the right regulator and you'd last MUCH longer than the CO2 tank (and you'd avoid freezing hoses)

Many years of experience in the paintball world has given me a unique perspective on HPA systems.

You could even use one of the low pressure air compressor systems in conjuntion with a booster to refill the scuba
 
#3 ·
I'm not excited about having a 4500psi tank behind me. I looked at that option and decided to skip it and use CO2. This doesn't have a problem with iceing up like a paintball gun, but we did have an issue that one time in the junkyard.

-Tad
 
#4 ·
Scuba tanks are incredibly durable. I've never seen a scuba catastrophically fail before. I have had a paintball HPA 3000psi tank have its regulator blow off, but never a scuba. I agree though that having 4500psi in your trunk isn't a good idea. I doubt it would rupture, but it'd be close if a dumptruck rear-ended you.

Hydrostatically testing your tanks is paramount to keeping them safe.

tanks are designed to take abuse. A hydro-failed tank will still hold air correctly, but it will not stand up to abuse.

The new fiber wrapped tanks are so robust, I seriously have a hard time believing that anyone could break them except with an AP shell.
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the info Tad. I really like your setup. And it's a heck of a lot cheaper than a compressor. Shouldn't have too much of a freezing problem here in FLA. Did you say that you got the tank and get it filled at a welding supply store?

Thanks

Andre
 
#6 ·
I've only had the tank freeze once, and it was outside, in a junkyard, and it was really cold.

Yes, my local welding store is the cheapest that I've found. It's $12 to exchange a 20lb tank. They don't fill on-site, so they exchange. With the exchange, I never have to worry about having the tank hydro tested. They take care of it for me. I don't always get a "pretty" tank, but I don't care. My Trooper isn't a show vehicle. Most of the time I can get an aluminum tank, but occasionally I end up with a steel one. I always have the choice to not take a steel one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... eName=WDVW

Something like that would be a good start for someone in my position, but ask your welding and gas stores (we have Arcet and Robet's Oxygen). I asked and it would be $140 for the first full 20lb tank right now from my local welding store.

Having the tank filled is more expensive for me, but that's because a bar supply store is the only place that I've found to do it.

-Tad
 
#7 ·
I'm still waiting on my tank, but I already have my regulator. Found a buy it now for 24 dollars on ebay. I have my coiled hose and all I lack is a fire ext. holder for holding it in place.

My local gas supply shop will fill a 20# CO2 tank for $8.

I will have my setup soon.

I saw Tad's at the last Uwharrie and was very impressed. I had always drooled over on-board air compressor and such. But this is WAY cheaper and very handy to have.

Thanks for the idea.
 
#8 ·
Joe: What reguklator did you get for $24? Also, let me know if you find a deal on tanks. I'm looking for a setup for uwahrrie too. I'll let you know if I find something local. Last year, you could get nearly new aluminum beverage tanks filled for $60 from local beverage co.
 
#9 ·
It's a Cornelius brand it had a buy it now option. I jumped on it. I have friends in low places as far as the tank goes. A buddy I go to church with works at a bottling company and he thinks he can get me one free. We'll see how that works out. I have seen them on ebay for as cheap as 50 bucks just the other day.
 
#10 ·
My bottle and regulator are on the way. My Dad just found me a 20 lb bottle with regulator at a garage sale. I had him looking ever since I realized he has the exact same setup for his homebrew kegs. I just need an air hose and I'm good to go.

Andre
 
#12 ·
Any idea what the out-put is with that regulator (CFM)? I know it will depend based on the regulator but was trying to get a ballpark example.

Trying here to figure out what is best for me based on availablity/cost of refills, cost of set-up, availability of space in the amigo, security with a soft top, and out-put.

I've used:
-DougH's CO2 set-up which is fast (don't know the out-put)
-a York compressor, also very fast @ 8CFM

Thinking about an under hood compressor, with no tank to start at least. QuickAir is somewhere around 3-4 CFM.

Thanks, --jeremy
 
#14 ·
Many regulators are rated in PSI. You can get them rated for flow too. Those tend to be used for things like welding where you want "4 cubic feet/hour" instead of "120psi." The issue that comes up with CO2 is that you can get a regulator that will regulate to 120psi, but won't flow well enough to run an air tool. Or they will flow enough to run an air tool for a little while, then ice up enough to restrict the flow.

That's why I recommended Cornelius brand regulators, because I've tested them to have enough flow. Other brands might work just fine, but I can't say for sure. I've examed a few beverage regulators at yard sales, and they definitely don't have passages that are as large as the Cornelius that I have. That may or may not be a problem. The other really nice thing with the Cornelius is that it has a 1/4" NPT fitting, so you can just screw in your quick-disconnect from Lowes.

Skip welding regulators all together. They won't flow enough, and can't be set to a high enough pressure to do you any good.

-Tad
 
#15 ·
BTT< OK I now have a hose, regulator, and some misc fittings. all I need is a tank. Anyone got a good source for cheapos?
 
#17 ·
gosh tad now you makin me want to go to class and have me one the Co2 tanks from the welding shop. heck if i ran a tee form the bottle to two regulators i could have all the air tools going and have a flux core welder on board. just need big campin generator.

:roll: aw i want my pup to be a rolling auto shop. just imagine...... "Hillbilly Delux on-site auto repair/ fabrication" slogan:... "If I can't fix it good by the third time, you can have one of my 6 wives." :lol:
 
#18 ·
toolow87isupup said:
gosh tad now you makin me want to go to class and have me one the Co2 tanks from the welding shop. heck if i ran a tee form the bottle to two regulators i could have all the air tools going and have a flux core welder on board. just need big campin generator.

:roll: aw i want my pup to be a rolling auto shop. just imagine...... "Hillbilly Delux on-site auto repair/ fabrication" slogan:... "If I can't fix it good by the third time, you can have one of my 6 wives." :lol:
You need one of these:

http://www.premierpowerwelder.com/index2.html

-Tad
 
#19 ·
by golly gee :shock: me want really bad... no isuzu on the list though.... hmm oh well i guess just pick up the 22re toyota version and custom fab a mount out of 1/4" steel.

your the best tad.
 
#20 ·
BTT

This thread is an extremely valuable source of information!
(I’ve probably read it a-half-dozen-times now)

It took a while, but I presently have three 20# CO2 Bottles sitting in my basement â€" one of which is a Siphon Tank, suitable for refilling Paintball Bottles (upright/non-inverted)… however, they are all out-of-date and need to be pressure tested.

I did have four such bottles, but back in May, I took one of them to my local welding supply shop to have it pressure tested…… and waited…… and waited…… and waited for the phone to ring. --- Finally, in July, I returned to inquire about the hold-up. --- I was informed that it sometimes takes as long as two months to get a tank back, and that mine should be coming in “any day nowâ€
 
#21 ·
The air hose is easy. Just go to HF. LINKY. I got one for my little air compressor. After having 2 of the cheap yellow plastic hoses break on me many years ago I refuse to ever buy another one. I think the poly hose was about $1 more then the plastic ones at HF.

My co2 tank is on the roof of another bldg at the moment so cant see what regulator is on there. It flows really well though, we use them for blowing out equipment. I'll be using it tomorrow so I can see what kind it is.
 
#22 ·
the only CO2 tank I have is a 32Oz one for paint ball. the first time I ever had one filled the guy over filled it and it the valve released and I was holding it. I was scared as ****, and I got some frost bites. I'm sort of terrified of tanks now, but I need to get one as I need it for welding. MIG welders do such a dirty job without gas.

But I have to say.. Such a great idea tad.
 
#23 ·
Has anyone used a co2 setup like this coupled with a hardline distribution system for external Quick-Disconnects?

I'm thinking of front/rear Q-Ds, so as to avoid leaving doors/windows open during use... Possibly also to power front/rear air-lockers. Do air lockers 'leak' air while engaged, or make an air tight seal within the diff?

~psguardian
 
#24 ·
psguardian said:
Has anyone used a co2 setup like this coupled with a hardline distribution system for external Quick-Disconnects?

I'm thinking of front/rear Q-Ds, so as to avoid leaving doors/windows open during use... Possibly also to power front/rear air-lockers. Do air lockers 'leak' air while engaged, or make an air tight seal within the diff?

~psguardian
Shouldn't be to hard to do if you use some rigid air lines... routing of the air lines might be a little hassle. Of course some drilling of holes would be required if you run them from in-cab along the frame.

Air lockers will "leak" if engaged for more then a couple of minutes, that's why a compressor will cycle on/off. Of course you won't have that problem with an air tank as long as you have enough pressure.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top